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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 5, 2018 10:38:11 GMT -6
That's a great site for stats. thanks for posting. It's very interesting to go to the individual stats at the bottom and look at conference only.
*It's always interesting and revealing to look at a player's offensive efficiency relative to their usage. That combination shows you who should be more assertive (Mallers) and who is trying to do too much (Persons). Moses has a good efficiency at a high usage rate, and that is always impressive. Actually hitting some free throws is a big part of that.
*Sellers has a low offensive efficiency even though he has a very high effective FG%. That's unusual. The reason is his extremely low free throw rate...he never goes to the line. Incredibly he is 1-4 FT's in 10 MAC games. WTF?
El Amin and Gunn are disappointing bad or mediocre across the board. They have no statistical strong points to build on. But I know for a fact they are on their way to the hall of fame, because a guy with strong contacts and inside info told me that.
*Tyler blocked shots at a rate greater than Moses, Teague or anyone.
*Seems that it's time to stop thinking of BSU as a strong perimeter shooting team that has a puncher's chance in the tourney for that reason. We are 11th in the conference and much worse than our opponents in 3pt%. Seems we are more likely to exit the tourney due to a 3 pt barrage, rather than to advance on one.
*Teague is an equal defensive rebounder to Moses, but half the offensive rebounder? Usage or skill set? Hanging about the perimeter looking to shoot 3's is certainly no help.....in any way.
*Kiapway is a statistical disaster. I remember a comment (possibly reported in the SP?) a coach made during preseason practice when Kiapway was a freshman....something to the effect that he had pro potential.
*Oddly, opponent's 2 pt fg% is our team statistical strength.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 5, 2018 10:49:28 GMT -6
Man that peels back the layers. I think it’s obvious when Persons tries to do too much. Generally when it becomes the Tayler Show” to the exclusion of others we are not good at all. When he does something like 16 pts 8 assists 8 rebounds we’re pretty good. Of course when he’s basically a no show like vs emu we get run. Teague I think is half a problem of usage, not being around the basket, and half him just checking out sometimes. We’ve seen that when he’s engaged, and active around the basket he’s pretty damned good.
Mostly I think the poor efficiencies speak to a poorly coached team with a passive offense that’s not maximizing skillsets and the coach not demanding more of guys. And insisting on letting guys shooting 3’s regardless of ability to hit them at an acceptable rate, etc etc. And, for all the talk of Whitford being a developer of players we sure also have a lot of guys who’ve flatlined or regressed.
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Post by bsuwolf99 on Feb 5, 2018 11:17:09 GMT -6
This is not to defend Persons' play, but he has a tendency to try and do too much when the rest of the team is in their unaggressive and "thumbs up their arses" mode.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 5, 2018 11:25:20 GMT -6
True. There's a link between sellers' minuscule free throw rate and persons' high usage/low efficiency
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Post by cardfan on Feb 5, 2018 11:37:56 GMT -6
This is not to defend Persons' play, but he has a tendency to try and do too much when the rest of the team is in their unaggressive and "thumbs up their arses" mode. No I agree with that. But have also seen him try to go hero ball when other guys are hot, as if he feels he needs to “get his” too. We are at our best when he’s getting everyone involved and the ball is moving, but yeah there’s definitely an aspect of 4 other guys standing around not wanting to do anything, at which point We need Persons scoring. Again, it would seem a coach would be more reactive and proactive to his team sleepwalking rather than just wait til after the game to tell us we just didn’t have it that night. Over and over. As RC has said, deer in the headlights.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 11:46:38 GMT -6
Again, it would seem a coach would be more reactive and proactive to his team sleepwalking rather than just wait til after the game to tell us we just didn’t have it that night. Over and over. As RC has said, deer in the headlights. Went back to look at Whit’s strengths. From the AZ Wildcat site: “James Whitford has been a mainstay on Sean Miller's staff for seven seasons, having made the move to Tucson in the spring of 2009. His tireless efforts as a recruiter and his defensive expertise are key components to the Wildcat coaching staff. He was promoted to associate head coach following the 2010-11 season. Whitford's primary responsibilities for the staff are recruiting coordination, post player development and defensive coordination. As recruiting coordinator, Whitford has helped Coach Miller pull in three consecutive nationally ranked classes, including the 2012 class that was ranked third nationally. While working with the post players, Whitford has overseen the growth of some impressive young talent, spotlighted by the rise of Derrick Williams from a borderline top-100 prospect to the second overall selection in the 2011 NBA Draft. Williams arguably was the most improved player in the country during his two seasons at Arizona. Whitford's defensive prowess continues to be a point of pride, as the 2011-12 squad limited opponents to an average of 62.7 points per game in 35 outings, the lowest scoring defense figure for the program since 1985-86. Further, Arizona held 12 opponents to less than 60 points in 2011-12.”
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Post by cardfan on Feb 5, 2018 11:56:09 GMT -6
Sadly our defense has been no where near that. Of course he had nba level athletes to work with at Arizona. As far as recruiting it’s certainly been improved but still lacks the punch he was thought to bring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 12:33:35 GMT -6
El Amin and Gunn are disappointing bad or mediocre across the board. They have no statistical strong points to build on. But I know for a fact they are on their way to the hall of fame, because a guy with strong contacts and inside info told me that.
You think those stats are bad, check out the Freshman stats of our big time transfer............... barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2017&p=Brachen%20Hazen&t=ArkansasThe above stats are way worse than most walk-ons......... Out of 2163 D1 players who logged minutes Hazen ranked 2082...........Before someone says "well yeah he didn't play much"................The stats are adjusted per minutes played. What the stats basically say is there were only 81 players in D1 basketball who would have been a worse substitute for Hazen......
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 5, 2018 13:04:51 GMT -6
It's a pretty small sample size, considering that he took 6 shots all year. I think the significance is that we wasn't good enough to play, rather than the bad stats.
Anyway, we definitely are not talking about a Dan Palombizio, Paris McCurdy type transfer here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 13:12:10 GMT -6
It's a pretty small sample size, considering that he took 6 shots all year. I think the significance is that we wasn't good enough to play, rather than the bad stats. Yeah but his stats are far worse than the average walk-on, and they are adjusted efficiency stats so scoring is only one component. You are right though, with these stats there was no way he was going to get in a game. I don't think he is really as bad as these numbers indicate, but this likely isn't a guy who is going to add a lot either.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 5, 2018 13:36:33 GMT -6
Well, I'm sure you could find some samples of 6 consecutive Michael Jordan shots where he missed all 6, and maybe had a couple turnovers thrown in as well. In this respect, I'm comparing Hazen to Michael Jordan. So, we've got that going for us.
Some other things I noticed:
there is a "G-score" for each game, ranking a team's performance with the quality of the opponent factored in. Our best and worst were back to back...Toledo and emu. The Toledo G-score being slightly higher than the ND G-score, and the EMU G-score being even worse than the evisceration at OK.
The bucknell and Dayton losses had higher G-scores than several of the wins.
Tyler led in block rate and steal rate. Also second in 3pt %. Losing him was disastrous, especially when you consider Walker was the most comparable teammate. Before this year, you might have also said Kiapway was a comparable player, but this year, Kiapway's closest comp would be a day-old bologna sandwich. El-Amin's stats are not such that one would prefer a lot more PT for him.
Thinking it over, the low 2pt % allowed has got to reflect the "pack line" defensive strategy. As does the high 3 pt% allowed. Just don't have the athletes to effectively stop both. Recruiting has consequences....as does bad off-court behavior.
Kiapway's stats indicate someone who is hurt, or has given up.
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Post by reevo on Feb 5, 2018 13:40:38 GMT -6
It's a pretty small sample size, considering that he took 6 shots all year. I think the significance is that we wasn't good enough to play, rather than the bad stats. Yeah but his stats are far worse than the average walk-on, and they are adjusted efficiency stats so scoring is only one component. You are right though, with these stats there was no way he was going to get in a game. I don't think he is really as bad as these numbers indicate, but this likely isn't a guy who is going to add a lot either. Having watched Hazen play some in the summer, he has the talent to be a very good MAC player. The problem is going to be how Whitford uses him. Similar to Teague, he is a very good athlete that has a good first step off the bounce. He is not a great perimeter shooter but where he is better than Teague is he has a non stop motor. You will get effort from this kid every time he steps on the floor. He is a bigger version of Sean Parrish and a little better athlete with the same type of mindset. I like the kid. From what I have heard from those in Arkansas, they really liked him and felt they screwed up by not red shirting him. He is a double digit scorer in the MAC because he will stay active around the glass. He will be a fan favorite and if he has improved his perimeter game, he has all MAC potential. Even if his perimeter game has not gotten better, his athletic ability and motor will make him a very good MAC player capable of 13 and 8 on most nights.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 5, 2018 14:01:39 GMT -6
I think it was in media day coverage I watched a Whitford interview where he said he wanted Hazen working on his jump shot to round out his game.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 5, 2018 15:52:55 GMT -6
Yeah but his stats are far worse than the average walk-on, and they are adjusted efficiency stats so scoring is only one component. You are right though, with these stats there was no way he was going to get in a game. I don't think he is really as bad as these numbers indicate, but this likely isn't a guy who is going to add a lot either. Having watched Hazen play some in the summer, he has the talent to be a very good MAC player. The problem is going to be how Whitford uses him. Similar to Teague, he is a very good athlete that has a good first step off the bounce. He is not a great perimeter shooter but where he is better than Teague is he has a non stop motor. You will get effort from this kid every time he steps on the floor. He is a bigger version of Sean Parrish and a little better athlete with the same type of mindset. I like the kid. From what I have heard from those in Arkansas, they really liked him and felt they screwed up by not red shirting him. He is a double digit scorer in the MAC because he will stay active around the glass. He will be a fan favorite and if he has improved his perimeter game, he has all MAC potential. Even if his perimeter game has not gotten better, his athletic ability and motor will make him a very good MAC player capable of 13 and 8 on most nights. Yes he will add quite a bit. He is working on shooting, and not having the pressure of SEC defenders should be comfortable. I agree about a comparison to Parrish. Tough kid willing to mix it up, but he is shooting more in the offense from outside and better, and of course is also bigger. Probably undersized to do everything we need him to do, but with Hazen, Teague, Mallers, Gunn we have players at forward who can play, and numbers will help. All will probably have a chance to hit open shots on the perimeter when our other players go to the basket. Gunn and Mallers probably the guys who will be threats, but Teague and Hazen will do very well on the drive if they get isolated on bigger players who will have to give them room, so both would be awfully good if able to shoot an open 3.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 5, 2018 15:57:44 GMT -6
It's a pretty small sample size, considering that he took 6 shots all year. I think the significance is that we wasn't good enough to play, rather than the bad stats. Yeah but his stats are far worse than the average walk-on, and they are adjusted efficiency stats so scoring is only one component. You are right though, with these stats there was no way he was going to get in a game. I don't think he is really as bad as these numbers indicate, but this likely isn't a guy who is going to add a lot either. Numbers are not just small sample size but reflect match up with very good athletes in the SEC. Not getting in the game as a freshman isn't really a surprise...getting in for limited time and not in rotation expected to score means not being a big impact is also no surprise. Compare to Mallers who was more in that situation last year.
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