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Post by cardfan on Mar 20, 2018 14:29:24 GMT -6
Dammit reevo don't tell us that. :-(
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 20, 2018 14:33:17 GMT -6
When was there a big time vision? Talk of moving to Conference USA before the NCAA sanctions. University Arena is built. We had a vision that came crashing down when the NCAA fu**ed us up the ass. I know firsthand we WERE considering going to Conference USA before the sanctions. I remember, but I wonder if that was vision or just talk. How much vision there was to pay the price. No question the NCAA sanctions and our over reaction hurt.
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Post by proctorp on Mar 20, 2018 14:48:07 GMT -6
Worthen Arena and the coach prior to the arena(and just past)was thinking "big time" vision. There hasn't been a vision for BSU basketball since then.
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Post by cbcjanney on Mar 20, 2018 14:56:20 GMT -6
The only real avenue we have into the NIT these days is to win the MAC regular season and get the auto-bid that way. They're just not taking runner-up type teams anymore from conferences like ours currently is, as at-large NIT teams. This year the NIT's 32 teams was made up of 11 regular-season conference champs who didn't win their conference tournaments, 17 middle-of-the-pack teams from the top 7 conferences, and 4 others that would sort of fit in our category (Boise St., St.Mary's, BYU, and Western Ky) except that all these other 4 were in the top 70 KenPom rankings AND their conferences all had many more teams higher up the rankings which gave these teams a lot more opportunities to get the so-called "quality" wins
Mtn West - 6 teams in the top 104, their 8th place team was ranked ahead of our 3rd WCC - 5 teams in the top 144 including 2 of the top 30, their 5th place team was right where our 3rd was Conf USA - 5 in the top 108 where the MAC's #2 was #113
So basically, unless the MAC sharply improves next year which is out of our control, we could probably afford no more than 2 MAC losses plus need to pick up a big win or 2 out of conference to be ranked in the range of today's at-large NIT prototype team (probably 26-6 or even 27-5 & MAC Finals). Frankly we have a better shot at the NCAA tourney than the NIT, since getting hot out-of-our-minds for a 3-day stretch seems more likely under this staff than playing near-perfect for 3 months.
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Post by reevo on Mar 20, 2018 15:14:15 GMT -6
Talk of moving to Conference USA before the NCAA sanctions. University Arena is built. We had a vision that came crashing down when the NCAA fu**ed us up the ass. I know firsthand we WERE considering going to Conference USA before the sanctions. I remember, but I wonder if that was vision or just talk. How much vision there was to pay the price. No question the NCAA sanctions and our over reaction hurt. No, it was more than vision. It would have happened if it were not for Dick getting canned. Dick felt, as well as our AD that our Basketball program was in a position to take the next step. He had momentum and an AD as well as a President that was willing to say bye bye MAC.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 20, 2018 15:36:07 GMT -6
I’m vomiting right now
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Post by reevo on Mar 20, 2018 15:46:59 GMT -6
Let me preface this by saying the original look was the Great Midwest Conference which became Conference USA in the mid 90's. I believe the Great Midwest started in the late 80's with Dayton, Cincinnati, Marquette and others.
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Post by cbcjanney on Mar 20, 2018 16:51:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure where we'd be today had we made that rumored move back then. We were a slightly better fit in the Great Midwest than Conf USA but still not a great fit in the GMW as much of that conference were private Catholic non-football schools i.e. DePaul, Marquette, St.Louis, Dayton (and Detroit was posturing to get in too if I remember right). Cleveland State was also trying to take advantage of their success of that era I believe and they would have had some similarities to us but again no football. That conference only ran another year or 2 after Dick was let go anyway.
Once Cincinnati moved on from this Great Midwest, the merger of the GMW and what was left of the old Metro Conference took a decidedly southern turn, and I'm afraid at that point we'd have been left out entirely and perhaps crawling back to the MAC, or worse the Midwestern Collegiate Conf (Youngstown, Evansville, Oral Roberts, Loyola, Okla City, Wright St) had we dropped down in football upon joining the GMW. I don't know that we'd have had any long-term interest in partnering with Conf USA members Southern Mississippi, Tulane, UNC Charlotte, East Carolina, UAB and the like - especially since many of these schools were worse in basketball than a strong MAC was at that time. Remember Ray was 11-7 or 12-6 and no better than MAC 4th every one of his first 4 years at BSU (we did win the MAC tourney in '95 though) so we'd already dropped back to sort of mid-to-upper, but not championship level, MAC by 1997 (certainly not rolling through the MAC unchallenged).....again though remembering that in the 10-12 years after BSU's glory NCAA years, EMU, Miami, Kent, WMU, CMU combined to win 12 games in the NCAA tourney, and we were regularly seeing multiple MAC teams in the NCAA/NIT, so the MAC was providing BSU substantial competition at that time.
My hunch is that the conference affiliation worked out ok for us by staying in the MAC - it's just that the MAC as a whole made some bad coaching hires, poor admin decisions, and eventually lost the prowess it once had.
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Post by universityjim on Mar 20, 2018 17:08:58 GMT -6
So would we be better off now if we were in C-USA or are we lucky we didn't get the chance to make that move? If Whitford fails to make the NCAA Tournament or NIT next season I don't think that alone will be enough to warrant termination. If he fails to make the NCAA Tournament or NIT next season, hasn't recruited a promising class with a talented big man, and it looks like our team is not in a position to take another step toward MAC domination then I think it will be time to bring in someone who can take us further. He is at a crossroads. Let hope we hire a new AD with the balls to do what needs to be done. Also, the NCAA didn't force Dick Hunsaker to do what he did. I blame him, not the NCAA. Improper employment; extra benefits; improper recruiting; unethical conduct; lack of institutional control.
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Post by bsu1 on Mar 20, 2018 17:23:28 GMT -6
I'd like to say we win the MAC West but we certainly are a step down from Buffalo. I'd go further to say 1. Our guards have no been able to stop dribble penetration, 2. Our guards are not quick enough on offense, 3. We have to be able to play some zone, I love man defense but we can't play it 100% of the time. 4. We need a post player with mental toughness--a junk yard dog mentality. 5. Moses can't disappear against better big men as he so often has, 6 continued development of Mallets, Ish, and Gunn.
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Post by bsu1 on Mar 20, 2018 17:53:50 GMT -6
Stupid autocorrect. Mallers. I believe Whit's first two years you wipe away and we have improved each of the next three and I believe we will be better next year. I believe Whit has brought us to a top 4 MAC team, but the question is, can he get us over the hump or has he elevated us just enough to SEE the NCAA or NIT but not experience it? That is the question.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 20, 2018 17:57:24 GMT -6
That indeed is THE question.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 20, 2018 18:51:47 GMT -6
Agreed its just kind of what it is.... Its BSUish Something that struck me as a prime example of BSUish: Clearing the snow from only one section of the steps leading up to the entrances of Worthen, then caution-taping off the rest. It seems like such a small thing (that's what SHE said!) but it really makes a statement when the facilities folks can't clear off all the steps. That statement is, "We're BSUish. We don't expect enough people to trouble ourselves enough to clear them all." Small-time thinking. I noticed the same thing lol
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Post by steve on Mar 20, 2018 19:25:21 GMT -6
So would we be better off now if we were in C-USA or are we lucky we didn't get the chance to make that move? If Whitford fails to make the NCAA Tournament or NIT next season I don't think that alone will be enough to warrant termination. If he fails to make the NCAA Tournament or NIT next season, hasn't recruited a promising class with a talented big man, and it looks like our team is not in a position to take another step toward MAC domination then I think it will be time to bring in someone who can take us further. He is at a crossroads. Let hope we hire a new AD with the balls to do what needs to be done. Also, the NCAA didn't force Dick Hunsaker to do what he did. I blame him, not the NCAA. Improper employment; extra benefits; improper recruiting; unethical conduct; lack of institutional control.
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Post by steve on Mar 20, 2018 19:26:25 GMT -6
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