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Post by cardfan on Oct 5, 2015 9:28:40 GMT -6
Teague was cleared to practice.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2015 9:40:45 GMT -6
What, remind me how many games we lost last year again. We are doomed you say. The mediocre coaches will ruin our good recruits. The record proves the coaches mediocre or poor, you say. I am reserving judgment, it is too early to declare judgment. So what about that record? Most of us had modest expectations for last year, with a young roster and not enough talent to compete above the middle of the MAC. We didn't start the season with a full roster, then we lost key players. Sure, the record last year did not meet that modest expectation. That was about not having our best players available for enough games. It was about lack of depth. It was about inexperience. Overall it was about too many players who were asked to play more minutes than they should have been playing. The staff had a lot of problems to overcome last year. Not sure the best coaches in the country would have made a big enough difference to make you happy. As we see a roster of players recruited and developed by this staff to play their system, we will see better results. This year, we should be able to see improvement and tell that we are on the way to success. I am very optimistic about good results and meeting high expectations, next.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2015 10:07:30 GMT -6
Teague was cleared to practice. That is good news. He has missed a lot of preseason work, hope he can get to full speed and be in the mix to contribute this year. We have a lot of experienced talent at forward, he will have to be very good very fast to play a lot. I'll be even happier when he is cleared to be a sophomore...adding Moses and Teague to the mix it is exciting to think of next year and the number of talented athletic players with at least a years experience under their belt.
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Post by thebsukid on Oct 5, 2015 10:26:27 GMT -6
Hey Halftime, I am not certain if I were you if I'd lower my standards either to a $1 million++ home!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 11:06:32 GMT -6
"I suggest he would have had more offers had he not committed early in the game to BSU."
There are rumored to be other issues involved.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 11:26:09 GMT -6
None of this means these guys won't be successful, however I'd be more than surprised if they have the abilities to overcome mediocre coaching. "Sellers, Tyler and Persons are actually tested and proved by good freshman performance against college players" What, remind me how many games we lost last year again. Moses as you point out was recruited by good schools based on his good performance. Sellers and Tyler did prove their skills against good competition. As Kid points out Tyler played well early, Sellers played well all year. Persons played well all year on another team. Persons, Moses and Teague of course had nothing to do in any way with our record last year, Tyler was not around for the conference season, Sellers was considered one of the top freshman in the MAC by those he played against. You aren't making much of a case for these kids being poor recruits by reference to last years record. Now, it's "mediocre coaching" that is the reason you expect they will never perform well. First you declare our coaching is poor due to poor recruiting. Now alternatively you argue that even if that isn't a good reason and that if it was after all good recruiting, the good recruits are still doomed to fail. Well, I agree the new recruits may not as freshmen make some huge impact. We should not expect that from freshmen, but I think Wells and the returning players with experience will improve and we will be much improved. That should be the measure of our coaching performance. I think the impact of our new freshmen will mostly be seen next year. Well actually what I meant was Moses was offered by several schools, none of which were really great options. I find it amusing you don't factor Tyler having to sit half the season in your recruiting analysis, oh well. I agree Sellers was okay and Persons played very well in a different system, with a different coach, and with different players around him. We will see how that works a year from now. I never said they were relatively "poor recruits". I merely suggested at this point they haven't proven an upswing. I was actually trying to be nice when I used the word "mediocre" to describe the coaching. To be honest I think Whitford's absolute upside potential, granted superior talent, is something around 17-20 wins. He is the kind of guy, if he can hit recruiting home runs , will be competitive every few years.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -6
Let's see about the results of his Program building. Consistently good recruiting gets you to the top and tends to sustain success, and gives the next coach a chance to succeed. No recent coach has given his successor much chance.
We agree results on the court have not been even "mediocre" in terms of our long term expectations, and we agree that we will see Whitford's ideas tested about what we need and what it takes to win. We have to wait on concluding how good the coaching job has been.
There is a case he has produced recruiting results that represent upswing, and promise return to our best historic talent levels.
Two good recruiting classes in a row have brought good recruits, along with some others perhaps less notable. Persons, Weber, Sellers, Tyler, Teague and Moses are in the good category, along with Wells (obviously signed to fill a weakness in the middle) and others who might play a role on a MAC team. Yes, Tyler proved to be a player with a problem. That is a fact of life at mid majors. You don't get "can't miss" players. (Well except maybe Bonzi) All in all, it's pretty hard to find any two classes in a BSU coach's first two full years of recruiting that are better.
Our recruiting adds players who can play the system and all this is accomplished at a time we have been at a relatively low point in our basketball history. It represents reestablishing connection to Indiana recruits at a time we really needed to do that. On that last count alone it is a promising rebound in face of a pretty tough recruiting row to hoe.
Majerus came to BSU unproven, he hit a jackpot adding McCurdy and Kidd (two recruits that came in with a few question marks) along with some other great players, and we had a string of teams at a relative high point in our history. We had this kind of talent, maybe better a few years. Still. Not many classes, even then, that had a lot more potential than these recruits. In any case this is an upswing from recent recruiting classes.
On the coaching talent issue, that question is unproven either way. Whitford is a new head coach and nobody would say he has proven himself. That lack of proof cuts both ways though. He started with players not all that well suited to his preferred style of play. he faced injuries and a short bench last year. I am not sure how much more we could expect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 14:26:28 GMT -6
nt
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 14:26:43 GMT -6
"Majerus came to BSU unproven" What, he had three consecutive post season years at Marquette before he came to Ball State.
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Post by thebsukid on Oct 5, 2015 15:12:33 GMT -6
This team has talent and will win 15 or more this season with the possibility of 19++ We have to much talent to be denied. This team can play 9-10 deep...not suggesting Coach will play 9-10...simply saying we are the deepest we've been in year's. We have a lot of different combinations that can be tried. This team has rebounding and shooters...we have two point guards...and one is a purer point guard. If I have any concerns its our ability to defend....Tyler is a stud, and IF he learned his lesson in the Classroom he will be an ALL MAC player before he graduates.
I really believe most MAC teams will lack the defense to stop BSU with so many weapons....Tyler, Sellers, Weber, Calhoun, and others....mark it down...and if you don't have a house bet the farm!!!!
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2015 15:33:05 GMT -6
Sure, in some important ways unproven is the wrong word. There was never much doubt that he knew basketball. He knew he knew it, too. He once said that he could always end up winning 19 or 20 games a year and he would always have a job.
But, he was unpredictable. And unconventional. Not the guy a President would ever be completely comfortable with. A risky hire.
That may have been partly a product of the head coach he worked managed for, played for and coached with for so many years, more likely that unpredictable odd character is what appealed to McGuire. What a pair they were.
So, coming to BSU, he had seen his share of controversy. 3 NIT years, which was pretty good performance. Not Al McGuire though, and most of the controversy was more about Rick the person. He did not coddle players, was accused of treating them badly, sometimes it seemed he did not care a lot about what they did away from the court. He was not slick with the press. A man of extremes in a game headed for a coaching career where the model was even then more button down, more corporate. Not Rick Majerus.
After so much history there, he left Marquette after that success. Not for a bigger job in college basketball though. He had had his share of criticism there which probably made that a long shot. But, at the time said he wanted to be an NBA coach. He coached a year with Don Nelson. Then he is looking at college jobs again. We got Rick Majerus in part because it was a risky decision.
Nobody knew what he wanted and what he was going to do. We took a chance on him and it paid off in a coach of the year job. Boy did it pay off in exposure.
But two years, then he was gone...and his whole career is marked by his unpredictable and unconventional behavior and surprising decisions.
You can't dislike him, but you can't predict what he will do. Although he had great successes there was always something up in the air when he was a coach.
A Final 4 at Utah was a great accomplishment, but he didn't think he could do it again there. When he go the job at USC where he thought he could win a national championship, there he was on the brink of big time coaching success. Then he walked away from that job, worried about being too far from his mom and worried about his health, he always was his own man.
C'mon, who would think St Louis was in the picture?
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Post by gjquest on Oct 5, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -6
As far as how good Teague is going to be , you never know for sure how good any recruits are going to be , but he comes in some good credentials ... 247 sports has him as at 4 stars , and 103 nationally , ESPN has him at 4 stars . and Rivals has him at 3 stars , he is the highest recruit we have has for some time ....
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Post by dmbdan41 on Oct 5, 2015 16:29:07 GMT -6
I sat right behind a few members of the basketball team at the Toledo game this weekend, and I don't know why, but House was on crutches. Not sure if he had surgery in the offseason, was banged up from practice, or just tweaked something, but thought it was interesting either way.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2015 18:10:50 GMT -6
No surgery off season, he was practicing this last week.
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Post by cardfan on Oct 5, 2015 18:35:43 GMT -6
It's not bsu basketball without a guy on crutches after the first day of practice.
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