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Post by cardfan on Nov 14, 2015 10:00:15 GMT -6
Aau ball.....
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Post by thebsukid on Nov 14, 2015 11:17:02 GMT -6
I hope I'm wrong on Teague...I really do.
But, many are concluding the season over based on one road game!!
Not so fast my friends...
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Post by cardfan on Nov 14, 2015 11:28:58 GMT -6
It doesn't matter if they played in Russia. A team that's allegedly improved does not lose to Bradley. For any reason. Not with the state of Bradley's roster. It's a bad loss. We stunk.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 14, 2015 11:45:37 GMT -6
I think you are likely correct and if it is just a redshirt it is probably more related to some academic problems than any physical maturity issues. I just don't see any reason a redshirt player wouldn't at least be on the bench. It doesn't make any sense. Nobody is officially a "red shirt" until the end of the season. They are not allowed to participate in games and get that status unless injured after a few games, and then not used. Traveling with the team may count and dressing definitely counts as participation. Red shirt players usually do not travel on the team's dime. They are on the bench in street clothes at home. This makes sense to me. It is partially money, and its use, like the common limits on traveling teams in football. Actually, I suppose they could travel on their own money. Without that concern, I still rather suspect coaches want them to use every opportunity to keep up in academics. In most cases the travel time takes them out of class, unless it is travel across town or down the road on a short bus ride, and any overnight travel is not justified if they are not going to be allowed to play. We should get some idea about why in coming days. This is now speculation. Red shirt can be given for any reason, I don't think academic difficulty is commonly one, since the red shirt still practices and spends so much time on basketball, but maybe Whitford learned a lesson with Tyler. My optimistic speculation is that if Teague is seen as a player who is mostly going to play behind Sellers, Weber, Bo, Franko, maybe even Moses at forward, and he is too scrawny to play in the post this year. They don't want to burn a year of eligibility for very limited play. That is by far the most common reason other than injury. With Weber out, we might have needed him but one or two games early use as a reserve who is not quite ready anyway, Whitford may have made a good long term decision.
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Post by thebsukid on Nov 14, 2015 11:55:33 GMT -6
In my view right you are 00hmh....let's assume anybody here signed a 4 star player like Teague, and lets also assume he was coming off injury, and although he could practice when official practices began he was not able practice during the Summer and as a result his development was slower...in addition, as 00hmh points out his play time would be lessened as a result of Bo, House, Sellers, Weber, etc.
Just maybe...Coach Whit is saving a year's eligibility as you point out....and we may be very glad he did.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 14, 2015 12:04:52 GMT -6
4 star players almost never get red shirted anywhere especially not at Ball State and especially with the players we currently have. So either Teague is not a 4 star player and was over rated or something is up.
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 14, 2015 12:06:28 GMT -6
You're optimistic because Whitford's marquee recruit in 2.5 classes can't break into a line-up that's on a 18 game losing streak? That's not optimism. That's a cataclysm.
If Teague is, in fact, Rashaun Richardson 2.0, then it's just a question of how many poor-to-mediocre seasons will be tolerated until Whitford is canned.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 14, 2015 12:09:29 GMT -6
I didn't see the game, but I didn't need to in order to perceive the most significant thing about it: the absence of Teague...Teague may never be the player I hope he can be, but he is the only one Whitford has found that might be a championship-level difference maker....But what's amazing about BSU basketball is that, just when you think your expectations are as low as they can be, something worse happens. I think the biggest WTF question is Weber. It looks like he let the team down. Almost as big is WTF was the story with Tyler. He did not look like the player we have seen, and we needed those two on offense. We really needed their shooting and having to play Gill, and having to depend on Smith and Davis for offense so many minutes hurt us. I have never expected Teague to step in right away and be big on offense, and watching him I think he is adjusting to the speed and physical play, might be he lost time due to the injury and will come along. It is not a big surprise he plays behind our other forwards, however, I'm like you, I think he is the most talented recruit and I did expect him to contribute and get minutes. I suppose that could happen if Weber is a problem. I think a lot of the questions about offensive continuity and game pace goes to essentially missing two of the four expected offensive keys. Plus it is fair to say that Franko and Sellers did not play well when the other team could concentrate on them. Our play in the middle showed us Moses and Bo are both decent players, but WTF the story is with Wells is a legitimate question, too. This may be a case that the other guys played well and have more offense, and offense was our problem. But whatever, I would have expected him to be better, and get more time @bradley. Our bench players and role players probably played as well or better than we might expect. In that sense this game was indeed like last year, where we had to depend too much on them to win and needed more guns down the stretch of close games. The only relatively good news is that two newcomers, Smith and Moses, seem to be more than good enough to make us a little better than last year, and Davis and Bo are solid, maybe improved a little. But we need Sellers, House, Weber and Tyler to be the scorers and we did not see them play well enough.
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Post by thebsukid on Nov 14, 2015 12:13:39 GMT -6
I want to make one additional point...I agree that we should have beaten Bradley mainly because we were up 8 late. But, to simply say their roster is in a terrible state is wrong...for example, Davante Cooper at 6'10 was offered a full ride to Tulane and Tennessee...not to shabby!! And, Luuk Van Bree, who killed us with 3's played on his national team and in the CBA!!!!!! And, Ogunleye has tremendous International experience playing on a national team...and it showed!! Barker, who had a good game at 6'9 played on Team Asia Pacific and Prep school.... The list goes on but just because their educational experience says Bradley was starting 5 Freshman don't assume that makes their basketball experience the same...not so...how many people that ranked them pre-season do you think knew these details? ? And, just because Bradley's rating early is low does not mean thats where they'll end up..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 12:19:26 GMT -6
"Traveling with the team may count and dressing definitely counts as participation."
No in a nonmedical redshirt the player is allowed to do everything except play in a game. They can dress, travel, practice and sit on the bench, they just can't play in a game without the redshirt status becoming moot. Why do think they don't become official redshirts until after the season ?
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Post by cardfan on Nov 14, 2015 12:20:20 GMT -6
One thing we are damned good at on here--we can rationalize anything! ;-)
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Post by thebsukid on Nov 14, 2015 12:23:34 GMT -6
No, but some do their homework, fair? You simply can't say a team is terrible, etc etc. without facts....my facts point to possibly Bradley was a bit more experienced than some may have thought...
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 14, 2015 12:26:38 GMT -6
4 star players almost never get red shirted anywhere especially not at Ball State and especially with the players we currently have. So either Teague is not a 4 star player and was over rated or something is up. We don't know for sure what is going on with him. "Something is up" could be a lot of things. I don't see him as a 4 star slam dunk college star, assuming that rating system means anything. That was not a consensus rating anyway. If it was a consensus rating it might mean he is a potential or probable starter even at a B10 school. 3 star players are surely potential freshman starters at this level, but not quite a sure thing, depending on physical development and how fast they adapt to college play, mostly. We'll know more about this soon enough. My whole theory with the stars is that you take the HS stars, add years of significant high quality college play, and you get a rough equivalence. A two star HS player with two good years is very good. Sellers was probably rated 2 stars, a little under rated, Weber too, and Tyler was probably 3 star. House, maybe 2 stars. Bo, I don't know, but know he played much better last year. So, this year Teague is facing competition from our forwards where the years of college play makes those guys a little ahead of him. At least for now. Those 5 star Kentucky recruits who play one good year are now almost ready for the pros. 3 star and 4 star players who have great play for a couple of years get drafted. Let's just look for good, very good MAC talent who develop into good players. 2 and 3 star talent up and down the roster will give us that.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 14, 2015 12:33:27 GMT -6
"Traveling with the team may count and dressing definitely counts as participation." No in a nonmedical redshirt the player is allowed to do everything except play in a game. They can dress, travel, practice and sit on the bench, they just can't play in a game without the redshirt status becoming moot. Why do think they don't become official redshirts until after the season ? Sure, practice is definitely fine. Sitting in street clothes at home is for sure fine. Travel may be optional, although mostly not done if it is. But I am not 100% sure about that dressing for the game. Thought the rule went the other way on that, interpreting it as participation. You are right they can certainly burn the red shirt at any time, and the part about eligibility being determined after the season. Why they would not travel makes perfect sense independent of any rule to the contrary, as I argued above. I think that is the norm in college basketball. Certainly the norm in football.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 12:38:40 GMT -6
"Davante Cooper at 6'10 was offered a full ride to Tulane and Tennessee...not to shabby!!"
He is a 2 star and and a far as I can tell wasn't offered by Tennessee or Tulane.
"Luuk Van Bree, who killed us with 3's played on his national team and in the CBA!!!!!!"
He played on a U18 team, not the national team, and he played for the Canarias Basketball Academy not in the CBA. What's really funny is the guy was 2-8 on threes.
You and 00hmh need to start sharing meds or something. I not even going to bother to look up the other two players you mentioned.
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