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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 1, 2015 13:39:50 GMT -6
I think if I were to type the sky is grey today someone might try and convince me that it was purple
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 1, 2015 14:02:23 GMT -6
So, I'm glad I don't have to walk out on the limb today. But by the end of the third season, once the Moses, Teague, spring signing, and 2015-16 results situations are all clarified, I think the limb will be thick enough to walk on in safety. Hey that's coming a long way from last year's position. You were more than halfway out that limb then, a little too far. Glad to see you scurry back to "safety." If you want safe and certain, I think your problem will be that no matter how much negative you will be able to find if you look for it, there will enough positives that you won't be really be safe any more to predict doom and gloom. We have a little momentum on the good side now, and if that goes much further, it's not ever going to be clear cut even if there are some negatives.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 1, 2015 14:25:03 GMT -6
Haven't moved an inch.
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 2, 2015 15:28:20 GMT -6
William...I am going to respond simply by saying because you lead in one statistical category doesn't really make u a better player does it?! I loved Lonnie as a good defender and a fair rebounder but not a scorer?! I'll bet you any amount that Moses scoring average is greater than Lonnies for 4 years and I believe rebounds will be very close. Edge slightly to Lonnie for blocks. But, you did not put Moses in the same class?? We differ on this but time will tell Just for objective comparison: Lonnie full freshman year, Total 3-Point Rebounds GP-GS Min/Avg FG-FGA Pct FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off-Def Tot Avg PF-FO Ast TO Blk Stl Pts/Avg 26-0 376/14.5 43-91 .473 0-0 .000 13-32 .406 36-75 111 4.3 38-0 9 22 52 6 99/3.8 Trey after 8 games, GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg 8-2 134 16.8 14-28 .500 0-1 .000 10-24 .417 15 16 31 3.9 22 0 5 6 10 1 38 4.8 Looks like they are most similar in FT shooting. At this point, Trey is playing slightly more minutes per game. Projection would be Lonnie better in defensive rebounding, blocks, and avoiding fouls. Trey has an edge in other stats. Pretty close, might expect Trey to improve, but also competition will be greater as the year progresses. Tendex or other measures based on overall performance would rate them about even.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 2, 2015 17:38:33 GMT -6
That's all fine except that Lonnie was notable for the immense improvement he showed while here, not for his obvious promise as a freshman. Bill Gillis was another big improver. Some of the others were studs from day 1 (though some were much older on day 1).
I well remember the first exhibition or maybe intrasquad game when I first saw Lonnie. I thought Ray had lost his mind. Total stiff. I always remember Lonnie as the most mistaken first impression I ever had of any player, at any level.
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 2, 2015 17:52:48 GMT -6
That's all fine except that Lonnie was notable for the immense improvement he showed while here, not for his obvious promise as a freshman. Bill Gillis was another big improver. Some of the others were studs from day 1 (though some were much older on day 1).
I well remember the first exhibition or maybe intrasquad game when I first saw Lonnie. I thought Ray had lost his mind. Total stiff. I always remember Lonnie as the most mistaken first impression I ever had of any player, at any level. I don't know. Compare on a per minute basis and the improvement he made isn't that immense. He had to improve to get more minutes and his minutes went up by 180%, his scoring and other stats did not go up as much overall. Although his shooting improved, blocks and rebounds did not improve by more than 80%. Trey may or may not improve more, or as much, but I saw Lonnie play as a freshmen and as a senior and he was limited on offense and Trey may already be better there, he certainly can play facing the basket better, and with the ball. He is a different player, stronger but not as long limbs, moves better and is a better all around basketball player at this point. I had the same reaction when I saw Lonnie first, but came to like how he fit with the team and those around him. For me that is the test for a good big man. Who do we have with him, does he fit our style of play and do what we need. Lonnie did that. So can Trey in a different system.. I like Trey's look better as a player but rate them both as good MAC players as freshmen. Because we have good scoring outside, I would love to have Lonnie, but it's not a huge difference. Here are his career stats: JONES, Lonnie Total 3-Point Rebounds Year GP-GS Min/Avg FG-FGA Pct FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off-Def Tot Avg PF-FO Ast TO Blk Stl Pts/Avg 1998-99 26-0 376/14.5 43-91 .473 0-0 .000 13-32 .406 36-75 111 4.3 38-0 9 22 52 6 99/3.8 1999-00 31-26 822/26.5 106-196 .541 0-0 .000 26-61 .426 60-128 188 6.1 80-2 14 37 84 15 238/7.7 2000-01 30-20 775/25.8 122-238 .513 0-0 .000 39-73 .534 76-121 197 6.6 80-1 23 53 76 11 283/9.4 2001-02 34-33 855/25.1 114-197 .579 0-0 .000 37-72 .514 66-116 182 5.4 84-4 16 34 89 10 265/7.8 TOTAL 121-79 2828/23.4 385-722 .533 0-0 .000 115-238 .483 238-440 678 5.6 282-7 62 146 301 42 885/7.3
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Post by reevo on Dec 2, 2015 21:02:19 GMT -6
You guys realize that the talent level of that particular team far exceeds anything we have had since? If you don't believe that you are out of your rabbit ass mind. Of course Jones was never going to be a big scorer as he did not have to and that was never his role. Guys like Petie Jackson, Chris Williams & T. Smith were going to and did take the majority of the shots. You CANNOT compare the stats between Moses and Jones ever. Different type of players with different skill sets and most importantly, different roles. We will see if Moses ever becomes a player NBA development people look at. I can tell you they took a hard look at Jones. I am not down on Moses as he does have a nice upside but let's not compare stats between players from that era to our players today.
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 2, 2015 23:02:48 GMT -6
Fair enough. As far as general principles go. But, I saw him play and practice. He was not a good offensive player. No shot. 220-230, less at first, thin.
A wonderful defender. Pro quality shot blocker. 7 feet and long arms, decent athlete. Was a little slowed by asthma. Sure NBA and pro scouts looked at him. Did play well in a pre draft camp back East. Played a few games in NBA summer league. I think he was on preseason rosters, cut.
As many BSU players have been, a good candidate for Euro leagues. Don't know what happened with that. Seen him around in summers a few years ago.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 3, 2015 9:26:58 GMT -6
It's funny, I did not remember Lonnie as a sub 50% free throw shooter. There are certain players I remember as terrible FT shooters (e.g. Kam) but Lonnie was not one.
And then Moses is....10-24, 42%....GAAAH!! Let's hope that gets better.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 6, 2015 16:29:16 GMT -6
Trey did have a dunk, I was not sure if he could dunk
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