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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 12, 2020 20:32:05 GMT -6
I wonder what percentile Whitford is in for post season success among coaches with 6 or more post seasons on their record? Maybe the 10th percentile? Just guessing, but I think few schools would tolerate for 6 years what BSU is tolerating.
As I have said before, many coaches equal or exceed Whitford's career post season wins total IN ONE YEAR.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 20:46:08 GMT -6
But since 00's entire philosophy about the basketball program's success is built around the idea of outbidding other mid-majors for the "best" candidate, I assume he has VERY strong proof that a high initial salary is absolutely necessary to land a successful coach. I don't think I said that. I did say that money is important in attracting good candidates. It is not the sole reason a good coach would take any job. There are a couple hundred years of economic data that shows money counts and markets are pretty efficient.
What your statistic shows is not at all clear BTW. Not even that it would apply to the current market in the MAC.
It could show nothing else than that a good coach hired at good pay will not necessarily succeed. Can't overcome the other negatives. Which by the way would not mean a low paid coach at that job would somehow do as well.
The correlation stat may also prove that programs with low probability to win oddly enough have to pay a coach more. I could totally understand also that programs with great chances to win may be able to pay a good coach less. Good programs don't usually do that is what I see in the MAC.
But what I want to know about your sample is how many cases in there featured low pay offered with a short term contract and also produced a winning record.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 20:58:16 GMT -6
Could be. Could be a change is worse. Why is 6 a floor? 6 is just a number I picked we could finish 2 to last and my point would remain the same. Finishing second and finishing last is not the same thing.
The question is what we think we are going to do in the future in the two scenarios.
I doubt any AD would agree with you that nothing but first place is acceptable.
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 12, 2020 21:00:29 GMT -6
Well...all that SEEMS to be in English, but yet I get no meaning out of it at all. Maybe it's actually Hungarian or Bengali, and I should run it through Google translator??
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 21:15:49 GMT -6
6 is just a number I picked we could finish 2 to last and my point would remain the same. Finishing second and finishing last is not the same thing.
The question is what we think we are going to do in the future in the two scenarios.
I doubt any AD would agree with you that nothing but first place is acceptable.
It is different but its all still the same point.. After 8 years you a have more than entire body of work to look at.. Any AD with a sack would look at that body of work would say.. Hmmm we have 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 4 5 Whats missing.. We have been in 8 conference tournaments and have 2 wins total... Whats missing here and whats causing this
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 21:25:41 GMT -6
Billy Taylor was eventually fired for lack of winning anything and Whitford isn’t markedly more successful than Taylor was.
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Post by CallingBS on Apr 12, 2020 21:39:40 GMT -6
Billy Taylor was eventually fired for lack of winning anything and Whitford isn’t markedly more successful than Taylor was. Yes, and despite the known lack of resources, there are more than enough resources for a good recruiter and a decent coach to make hay here. The MAC is a shell of its former self, we have great facilities, and are in a recruiting dreamland. As Sherm has said, there are aspiring coaches out there that are salivating at this job. You CAN and SHOULD win big at BSU. Yes, to be a national player they need to amp up the budgets, but winning the MAC in MBB is not hard right now.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 21:42:43 GMT -6
Billy Taylor was eventually fired for lack of winning anything and Whitford isn’t markedly more successful than Taylor was. True enough. But had he been top 3 or 4 in the conference his last few years, I am not sure he would have been.
The AD certainly had no reason to expect that in the future when he was let go.
Besides with the athletic budget being in crisis the next year, maybe the entire university in crisis, I hesitate to base any decision on history. Or expect much attention being given to athletics.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 21:49:19 GMT -6
Nothing will change anytime soon. We know this. So I hope a: there is a basketball season next winter, and b: We have a very good season.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 22:29:01 GMT -6
Nothing will change anytime soon. We know this. So I hope a: there is a basketball season next winter, and b: We have a very good season. Exactly this whole conversation is hypothesis and really just talking out loud.. Nothing is going to happen anytime soon.. So Yes I hope we kick ass next year and if we do none of this conversation matters. Like Ive said many times I have nothing against Whit and if he can get it done then great. I am not rallying the troops with my pitchfork out but you just can not go on like this forever
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Post by realitycheck on Apr 13, 2020 11:17:06 GMT -6
For the record, I do look forward to seeing Windham and Jones in the Cardinal & White. Both are MAC-level players. The question remains can they and whomever else we give the last two scholarships to lead us to a title? Are they better than Taj or Ish because I don’t think we have a player over 6-8 on our roster who replaces Teague and Ish was far and away our best guard. Good points, though I don't look to clone those players exactly. Ish had developed into a decent defender but that can be replaced, it is his outside scoring we will miss. We may have replaced that with Jones and Windham conceivably and can play Acree or Coleman or somebody else as a defender, rather than worrying about combining those traits.
Same for Taj. Obviously if we got a scorer/rebounder/defender inside we would not change our offense a bit and be delighted. But assume we got just a rebounder and defender to replace Taj, I think we can redistribute scoring. If we got a scorer outside like the UIndy PF Lake then we might replace some of Teague with his bulk inside and and some of Ish with his shooting.
Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish.
Ideally two must be able to play up front, ideally all should be athletic. Kroft was a an athletic wing player who eventually might have helped to partly replace Ish and Mallers, but we have Acree, Coleman, even Thomas who can play similar roles. Whether everybody likes it or not, the staff over two years has aimed for more athleticism rather than size and the greatest failure to me has been in not finding shooters. If we have shooters who can stretch the floor we will be able to score inside on drives by players like Acree, Jones, Windham et al.
The second failing in achieving this vision is a quicker ball handler and defender at guard. That job defending smaller guards may be going to Bumbalough more because he is too small to guard a wing guard, but with KJ eventually graduating we need a jet. If we can use this pack line idea better we might work around that failing.
I gave up reading most of this about two paragraphs in. My point is we lost our two best shooters and our only two all-Mac players. We are not going to be better next year. That is all.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 13, 2020 12:22:05 GMT -6
That was the "good points" part of the response. That lost player line of thinking can be misleading, it led some people here to say this years team could not be as good as last years team, creating prediction of doom and gloom. Woe was us. We lost Persons and Moses. How could we replace them? We didn't, but we were a better team. I say don't worry do much about replacing the two players with clones. Replace their scoring, rebounding, defense and so on by spreading that around a bit. Find some other strengths we didn't have and substitute for traits we lost.
You are right about needing overall similar talent level. That part of the equation is getting some overall talent that is close to what is lost. Count on returning players to improve.
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Post by thebsukid on Apr 13, 2020 13:39:28 GMT -6
" Nothing will change anytime soon. We know this. So I hope a: there is a basketball season next winter, and b: We have a very good season. " Cardfan
I wish all of you could on the same page as Cardfan and I !!!
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Post by CallingBS on Apr 13, 2020 15:58:28 GMT -6
" Nothing will change anytime soon. We know this. So I hope a: there is a basketball season next winter, and b: We have a very good season. " Cardfan I wish all of you could on the same page as Cardfan and I !!! Who says we are not? First, it would be great if this crud would go away so we could have a season (and get back to life). I am not sure what to think about the odds of that happening one way or another. Second, we always hope for a great season. I am, however, tired of hope. I want to see results (championship), and I want to see it now.
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Post by thebsukid on Apr 14, 2020 19:46:08 GMT -6
Calling BS never wish away hope
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