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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jan 7, 2021 13:58:02 GMT -6
You sure talk a lot now for someone who discounted all the violence over the summer.
Must be exhausting talking out both sides of your mouth. And your ass.
These clowns that invaded the Capitol building deserve what they get. So do the clowns that rioted over the summer. But you can't say that Trump incited BOTH of those groups.
You want it both ways.
There are idiot extremists on both sides. It was made very apparent that some cities were willing to overlook violent acts in the name of protest. DC was very hands off (but with a show of force given the history of destruction of statues) over the summer. Why is it different this time?
Oh, because politicians got scared.
They didn't care much when BLM and Antifa were burning businesses.
You reap what you sow.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 7, 2021 14:24:50 GMT -6
DC was very hands off (but with a show of force given the history of destruction of statues) over the summer. Why is it different this time? You ask what was different from your faulty account? Most glaring is that this was a planned event with ample warning of trouble coming. With Trump actually planning the event. But further.
1. Hands off in DC?
Did you miss the tear gas and riot police clearing the way for Trump's photo op?
For someone who encouraged forceful response, I do not hear you condemning Trump for failing to act.
2. I do not recall government officials either organizing the demonstrations or speaking to them encouraging the demonstrators to act, sending them into the streets.
BOTH these things your flawless leader did.
3. As for reacting appropriately, this was Washington DC which has a lot more force available to prevent violence than did Kenosha or other cities you refer to this summer.
Those 3 things at least are different.
I criticized the violence of the protestors then. Trump has not yet done so in this case. Instead he issues a mealy mouthed statement of how the demonstrators were robbed in the election, and he understands them...
May I add his "restraint," unlike that in many cases this summer, was NOT with the advice of his public safety and security officials, BTW. Read the account linked above. This was the essence of bad leadership. Incompetence. OR. Intent?
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jan 7, 2021 14:27:40 GMT -6
Flawless leader? Where have I EVER said that.
Take your straw man and cram it in your cram hole.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 7, 2021 15:41:28 GMT -6
Flawless leader? Where have I EVER said that. Take your straw man and cram it in your cram hole. If it weren't for straw men he wouldn't have any friends. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 7, 2021 17:47:56 GMT -6
Flawless leader? Where have I EVER said that. Take your straw man and cram it in your cram hole. If it weren't for straw men he wouldn't have any friends. OK. Of that is true what about the 4 or 5 other points made in my post? Delete that sentence and respond to my post.
Besides the cult of Trump generally does consider him above question. I have heard very little if any criticism by lurkin of his leader...
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 21:05:56 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 14, 2021 11:44:51 GMT -6
Covid death toll greater than it looks.
Who could believe health care was so hard to manage?
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 17, 2021 11:49:14 GMT -6
You realize that Trump will be out in 2 weeks, right? After January 20, COVID will not be the top story. I think the record number of deaths late January will make the news. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 17, 2021 11:59:07 GMT -6
He only made it possible for a vaccine to be developed in record time. No biggie. How do you evaluate that, today?
I believe he also promised about twice as many people vaccinated by now.
When he refused to order adequate additional doses of the vaccine in the Fall what was his plan for February? See this link for a thorough outline of Trumps success and now critical failure to handle this threat. Just let the states take the blame?
Had he won the election that would have certainly been his claim. All around the country people are experiencing a shortage of vaccine and many who had appointments have found them cancelled this week.
That he checked out of doing his job after the first week in November has not helped, that without his attention to the situation his appointees at CDC and HHS had little competence and refused to support preparation for distribution is since then a serious matter.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 19, 2021 17:32:10 GMT -6
I don't know he might of said more doses at some point I don't follow any of the political stuff near as closely as you guys do. I know what I heard him say and that was a vaccine would be ready in November. Critics then said January at the earliest and others said spring more likely. I never thought he meant a vaccine available to everyone there are always shortages of everything at the beginning. Looks like the experts right again. More painful is they were right about projected death toll. Over 400K, I hoped that would be wrong. |
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Post by bsutrack on Jan 20, 2021 1:23:05 GMT -6
I don't know he might of said more doses at some point I don't follow any of the political stuff near as closely as you guys do. I know what I heard him say and that was a vaccine would be ready in November. Critics then said January at the earliest and others said spring more likely. I never thought he meant a vaccine available to everyone there are always shortages of everything at the beginning. Looks like the experts right again. More painful is they were right about projected death toll. Over 400K, I hoped that would be wrong. You do seem to be fixated on that number. Let's try and put it into perspective. In 2019, 2.85 million people died in the US. Assuming approximately the same number of folks would have died again in 2020 without Covid-19 and 350,000 died of Covid-19 before the end of 2020, that means approximately 11% (350,000/3,150,000) of the US deaths in 2020 were Covid-19 related. A tragically large number true, but still 89% died of something else. But don't worry, starting today Uncle Joe will be fast tracking at least 11 million (and I think that number is low) illegals already in the country to citizenship. In addition, you have the caravans of illegals currently streaming up from Central America. I saw a delightful interview tonight with one of its current 7,000 members who seemed to think he had 100 days to get into the US to become a citizen and get all kinds of free stuff. Of course all these new citizens will more likely be voting for Democrats than the 400,000 dead voters they are replacing. So it's all a net win for the Democratic Party. Okay, I'll concede the Swedes have reversed course on their herd immunity strategy, although it sounds more like a political decision. ![]() www.politico.eu/article/sweden-social-democrats-stefan-lofven-coronavirus-critics/It cost the Social Democrats just like it cost the Republicans in the US, but was it wrong? Sure, short term locking everyone down would have saved some lives. It's harder to calculate long term effects; the number of folks who didn't seek medical attention for other health problems because of the lockdowns, folks who lost their jobs and/or homes and turned to alcohol, drugs, or even suicide. Those effects don't make a handy tally on a number board. But one number that can easy be counted is the national debt incurred by all this. You do realize we are at $27.8 trillion now? www.usdebtclock.org/I'll admit Trump wasn't great on this. After Obama added $8.6 trillion in his 8 years, in three years Trump had added about $3 trillion before Covid-19. But in 2020, our debt increased by another $4.2 trillion! ![]()  This is all going to blow-up someday. I used to hope hyper inflation wouldn't happen until I was dead and gone, but now I wonder if that will be the case. If we weren't already practicing Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), the idea you can continue to print money from nothing, we will now with the Democrats controlling the White House and Congress. If you thought the Swedish experiment will herd immunity was costly, wait until you see the Democrats and MMT. If we hadn't had the lockdowns, if we hadn't killed our economy, could this impending fiscal disaster been avoided? The US debt clock has an interesting feature. In the upper right hand corner there is a time machine button. It only has one future date, 2025. I had never looked at it before tonight, but it forecasts a national debt of $49 trillion by 2025. Could be they have factored-in the Socialists and MMT? |
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Post by bsutrack on Jan 20, 2021 9:51:33 GMT -6
I was bored this morning, so I did some number crunching comparing 2 US states that went the extreme lockdown route (New York and California) and 2 that attempted to keep their economies open (Florida and Texas).
California:
Population: 39.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 3.07 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 34,390
From those numbers; 7.8% of state's population reported infected; 87 deaths per 100,000 citizens
New York State:
Population: 19.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 1.27 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 40,933
From those numbers; 6.5% of state's population reported infected; 210 deaths per 100,000 citizens
Florida:
Population: 39.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 1.59 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 24,435
From those numbers; 7.4% of state's population reported infected; 114 deaths per 100,000 citizens
Texas:
Population: 29.0 M; Reported Positive Cases: 2.16 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 33,176
From those numbers; 7.4% of state's population reported infected; 114 deaths per 100,000 citizens
So NY and CA locked down their citizens and got basically the same rate of infection (6.5% and 7.8%, respectively) as TX and FL (7.4% for both). In terms of the all important deaths, CA did a little better at 87 per 100,000 while NY did a lot worse at 210 per 100,000 to both TX and FL having 114 to 100,000 (an amazing quirk that both have the exact same number). Oh I forgot the added bonus of totally destroying their economies. Of course Blue states like NY, CA, and IL have long been mismanaging their affairs. Not to worry, Uncle Joe can now use the old US printing press to bail them all out.
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Post by villagepub on Jan 20, 2021 10:24:43 GMT -6
I was bored this morning, so I did some number crunching comparing 2 US states that went the extreme lockdown route (New York and California) and 2 that attempted to keep their economies open (Florida and Texas). California: Population: 39.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 3.07 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 34,390 From those numbers; 7.8% of state's population reported infected; 87 deaths per 100,000 citizens New York State: Population: 19.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 1.27 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 40,933 From those numbers; 6.5% of state's population reported infected; 210 deaths per 100,000 citizens Florida: Population: 39.5 M; Reported Positive Cases: 1.59 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 24,435 From those numbers; 7.4% of state's population reported infected; 114 deaths per 100,000 citizens Texas: Population: 29.0 M; Reported Positive Cases: 2.16 M; Reported Covid Deaths: 33,176 From those numbers; 7.4% of state's population reported infected; 114 deaths per 100,000 citizens So NY and CA locked down their citizens and got basically the same rate of infection (6.5% and 7.8%, respectively) as TX and FL (7.4% for both). In terms of the all important deaths, CA did a little better at 87 per 100,000 while NY did a lot worse at 210 per 100,000 to both TX and FL having 114 to 100,000 (an amazing quirk that both have the exact same number). Oh I forgot the added bonus of totally destroying their economies. Of course Blue states like NY, CA, and IL have long been mismanaging their affairs. Not to worry, Uncle Joe can now use the old US printing press to bail them all out. Florida has 21 million. (several sources) |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 20, 2021 14:09:31 GMT -6
I was bored this morning, so I did some number crunching comparing 2 US states that went the extreme lockdown route (New York and California) and 2 that attempted to keep their economies open (Florida and Texas)..... So NY and CA locked down their citizens and got basically the same rate of infection (6.5% and 7.8%, respectively) as TX and FL (7.4% for both). In terms of the all important deaths, CA did a little better at 87 per 100,000 while NY did a lot worse at 210 per 100,000 to both TX and FL having 114 to 100,000 (an amazing quirk that both have the exact same number). Florida has 21 million. (several sources) Don't kid yourself that the only factor is lock down. If you look only at Miami-Dade in Florida in and Houston in Texas you don't see much magic in not locking down and enforcing masks. There was a need there too for lock down. In fact both did lock down but had no support from state government in mask orders.
Deaths in California and NY are overwhelmingly in urban population areas where NYC environs and LA and surrounding population account for a very high death rate.
Had they not shutdown the hospitals there would have been overrun. Not locking down would have been catastrophic.
Note too that hot spots have occurred in many areas where it is in a small population state and no lock down.
What we needed was coherent strategy at a national level and when we do reopen we need to emphasize masks and other mitigation. Lock down and no lock down are not the only variables and state boundaries are a poor statistical variable which makes the analysis above inconclusive.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 20, 2021 22:44:32 GMT -6
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