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Post by villagepub on Nov 12, 2020 16:06:33 GMT -6
The election is the most important process that occurs in this country. It is not audited on a regular basis, only when someone complains. The federal government spends more time auditing the financial actions of the private sector much more frequently than it audits the regular action of an election. The processing of individual votes is not transparent enough to the general public to avoid regular and surprise audits of the election process. I agree voting is important. However, there aren't very many people who study voting for a living who agree we need a lot more scrutiny of the elections.
The evidence is pretty strong we should spend more time and money on reviewing financial transactions of publicly traded companies. There is far more incentive for "creative accounting" and outright fraud in those companies.
Note that the private companies all have other reasons to have good accounting procedures and employ an army of accountants. Those accountants provide the information to the other accountants who prepare the certified statements for government requirements. A good system.
That regulation was created when there was overwhelming evidence of blue sky financial statements and a great failure resulting from that. It was done at the federal level precisely because uniformity was required and because states were not up to dealing with something that was the heart of the national economy.
There is no real parallel to the voting system.
Adding more people in the vote counting or regularly performing a close examination of the results afterwards is likely not necessary given the very small amount of evidence of the need for it. Repeated congressional and state legislative studies have looked at voter fraud and said as much.
No. We need to spend an equitable amount of time auditing the election process, and ensuring that there is NO opportunity for fraud and corruption. You want record election turnouts? Prove that the system has no flaws. That currently is not the case. Think this through, if we had proper election checks and balances in place, we would not have the current challenges and lawsuits going on with this election. We could then begin the process of administration transition, IF we can determine a certified winner. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 16:50:27 GMT -6
I disagree perfect is possible or necessary.
I am very sure it's not something states are going to vote to pay for.
BTW, Arizona now half way through it's standard audit/recount.
No fraud detected. Close election still, but expected to hold for Biden.
In another count, Biden 5 million votes up in national vote, 97% counted.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 18:26:08 GMT -6
I agree voting is important. However, there aren't very many people who study voting for a living who agree we need a lot more scrutiny of the elections....Repeated congressional and state legislative studies have looked at voter fraud and said as much. No....Think this through, if we had proper election checks and balances in place, we would not have the current challenges and lawsuits going on with this election. We could then begin the process of administration transition, IF we can determine a certified winner. The administration Department of Homeland Security says this election is the least likely in history to be subject to systematic fraud. The dispute here is product of Donald Trump and his months long efforts to undermine the results, that turn out better than most expected... There is no election law that would satisfy him except having his sons count votes. |
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Post by villagepub on Nov 12, 2020 21:18:15 GMT -6
No....Think this through, if we had proper election checks and balances in place, we would not have the current challenges and lawsuits going on with this election. We could then begin the process of administration transition, IF we can determine a certified winner. The administration Department of Homeland Security says this election is the least likely in history to be subject to systematic fraud. The dispute here is product of Donald Trump and his months long efforts to undermine the results, that turn out better than most expected... There is no election law that would satisfy him except having his sons count votes. Hold on. Biden was lawyered up in every pivotal state just in case the votes did not go his way. He had the same plan that Trump is currently executing. On top of it, his campaign has raised $30m in the last week for legal fees to fight anything that the Trump campaign comes up with, so don't come off as if this is a "product of Trump" or that he is "undermining the results". Biden was ready and able to do the same steps as Trump is currently taking, so get off your "Biden is a much nobler person" bullshit. |
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Nov 12, 2020 22:11:13 GMT -6
You want record election turnouts? Prove that the system has no flaws. That currently is not the case. Think this through, if we had proper election checks and balances in place, we would not have the current challenges and lawsuits going on with this election. We could then begin the process of administration transition, IF we can determine a certified winner. Really? Where's the fraud? The Department of Homeland Security can't seem to find it: www.axios.com/cisa-election-security-trump-a385868b-512a-4449-addd-4591829a4aef.html"Election checks and balances." Lmao. We're seeing lawsuits and challenges because Trump is a sorry sack of shit that lives in a different world than anyone who still has a functioning brain. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 22:18:58 GMT -6
The administration Department of Homeland Security says this election is the least likely in history to be subject to systematic fraud. The dispute here is product of Donald Trump and his months long efforts to undermine the results, that turn out better than most expected... There is no election law that would satisfy him except having his sons count votes. Hold on. Biden was lawyered up in every pivotal state just in case the votes did not go his way. He had the same plan that Trump is currently executing. On top of it, his campaign has raised $30m in the last week for legal fees to fight anything that the Trump campaign comes up with, so don't come off as if this is a "product of Trump" or that he is "undermining the results". Biden was ready and able to do the same steps as Trump is currently taking, so get off your "Biden is a much nobler person" bullshit. C'mon. There is one person in this election who claiming our elections are rigged and dishonest.
Trump has been promising he will challenge the election in court from the first days. He could only lose in a rigged election was his claim. He is most definitely the one undermining the results, and undermining democracy.
Of course Joe had lawyers in the states where he expected this, Biden would have been a fool not to be ready for a barrage of lawsuits, just what we got. And about 9 of 10 of his challenges are being thrown out. In most of these states he is suing Republicans as well as Democrats who administered the election, and insulting everyone involved.
You are going to have to alter your low opinion of Joe's intelligence. And on this count of trying to undermine the election process Biden is a more "noble person" I would think. Actually, I really can't think of a count where Trump would claim the high moral ground. If this election hinged on morals, Trump would lose in a landslide.
The lawsuits are a bust with the few "successes" so far not a challenge to many votes, not even close to enough to change anything. His lawyers have been grilled in court by judges and had to admit they had no proof, but said there MIGHT be something there... This is an embarrassing legal clown show, led by Rudy the Clown.
It is political theater where act two may be Trump asking Republican legislators to throw out the election, a pure political ploy, with a very weak justification, essentially that it must rigged since how else could he have lost...
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 13, 2020 8:22:17 GMT -6
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 13, 2020 9:09:44 GMT -6
Enough to cost “your” side the election. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 13, 2020 9:15:58 GMT -6
You tell me. You do realize that database includes cases from over 35 years.
How many of those cases represented any systematic fraud?
How many would be prevented by punishing prospective voters and making it more difficult to vote?
How many had any impact on any election?
I'll gladly say that any fraud is a problem, but not very much of a problem...
The question is more how many cases represent a problem big enough problem to disenfranchise a substantial number of voters for innocent technical errors?
If we are going to crack down in areas like photo ID let's make it very easy to get a legit photo ID. Audit registration well in advance. Don't like same day registration make it more rigorous if you want. But make the rules early on, give people the chance to correct errors. Don't take away votes they had every reason to think were legal as they followed the rules that were promulgated.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 13, 2020 9:30:40 GMT -6
Enough to cost “your” side the election. You are going to have to look awfully hard to find an example of that. Perhaps in a local election for somewhere, you will find one?
NOT in this election. Or any modern election for any major office.
The fact that perhaps a majority of his followers believe Donald Trump that this election was stolen is sad.
When pressed the voters often cite that they trust him to tell the truth. THAT is really sad. Probably set records for dubious statements and outright lies in this Presidency, early on caught with his doctored photos of his inauguration crowd. Then we became numb with it.
He's never lost an election by his account. It's always a fraud... Accused Ted Cruz and other Republicans of fraud in his primary losses 5 years ago. Claims fraud tainted his win 4 years ago. He lost the popular vote, grow up Mr Trump. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 13, 2020 9:31:18 GMT -6
Trump is a master of the big lie. He's good at it. And will continue to base his brand on that technique. Those who are suckers for his lies make up the trumped up legend of business success, which is littered with those who trusted him and were betrayed. Much of his success, the part not based on leveraged real estate investment funded by his father, is actually based on losing and claiming victory, using bankruptcy and legal maneuver to force the loss on his lenders, his vendors, contractors and partners.
We are seeing this acted out today. Trump is going to be around claiming he won and wanting everybody else's money to proceed with his next victory. And he may well be a "success" again. We seem to have a great appetite for conspiracy theory and Donald Trump as underdog victim is perfect for satisfying that hunger.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 13, 2020 9:56:02 GMT -6
"Voter fraud: It's a Democrat thing. But it's no big deal since it only helps us."
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 13, 2020 14:07:38 GMT -6
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 13, 2020 16:56:54 GMT -6
Oh, well if that bastion of journalistic integrity USA Today (aka News For Dummies) thoroughly researches it, we’re good. 5 people can’t vote due to no valid ID = huge problem. Thousands of illegal votes get cast = no problem. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 13, 2020 17:26:08 GMT -6
Oh, well if that bastion of journalistic integrity USA Today (aka News For Dummies) thoroughly researches it, we’re good. 5 people can’t vote due to no valid ID = huge problem. Thousands of illegal votes get cast = no problem. USATODAY compares rather favorably to the Post and other sources cited here. Look at the credentials on the byline. Compare. You are quite correct in your post about the allegations of thousands of votes cast illegally, but omit that there isbno proof. That is no problem. When it is out of 150 million votes cast. No problem. When even if all allegations true, no change in results, no big problem... How many not voting who knew they had no ID? How many unable to even register to vote? That's a problem. |
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