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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 9:37:46 GMT -6
Well more people in America voted that he become President than in any election in history.
There is no valid reason that a person can't have a legitimate ID if they are a legitimate, living citizen. Oh, they have to jump through hoops? Boo-fucking-hoo. So what? That's not an argument. I have to jump through bureaucratic hoops all the time, they can too. If it's important enough to a person to vote, they'll do what's required. If it's not, they won't. That would be true of all those bureaucratic hoops you complain about. Surely you don't mean to say that.
If the government makes you jump through bureaucratic hoops you respond by voting to lower the barriers. In this case it's catch 22 if you can't vote...
Voting ought to be a fundamental civil right. If there is a class of people for whom it is significantly harder to jump through hoops than it is for you, that is a valid reason to make sure any barriers that exist are essential. Whether it is voter ID or other barriers we should make sure there is a very good reason for making it hard to vote.
With no evidence of significant fraud and a large number of people prevented from voting, there is no reason for many of the barriers that exist. You underestimate how hard it is for many to overcome those barriers.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 12, 2020 9:45:03 GMT -6
If it were up to Democrats, people could just walk up cast a vote, walk out, walk back in, lather, rinse, repeat.
Every vote counts, wherever it came from. Cemeteries, Mexico, the land of make-believe...
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 9:48:42 GMT -6
If it were up to Democrats, people could just walk up cast a vote, walk out, walk back in, lather, rinse, repeat. Every vote counts, wherever it came from. Cemeteries, Mexico, the land of make-believe... That is simply not true. Do you have any idea how people register to vote and how much effort goes into making the elections work properly. With a very good record of success.
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Post by bsutony on Nov 12, 2020 9:56:28 GMT -6
There is no valid reason that a person can't have a legitimate ID if they are a legitimate, living citizen. Oh, they have to jump through hoops? Boo-fucking-hoo. So what? That's not an argument. I have to jump through bureaucratic hoops all the time, they can too. If it's important enough to a person to vote, they'll do what's required. If it's not, they won't. That would be true of all those bureaucratic hoops you complain about. Surely you don't mean to say that.
If the government makes you jump through bureaucratic hoops you respond by voting to lower the barriers. In this case it's catch 22 if you can't vote...
Voting ought to be a fundamental civil right. If there is a class of people for whom it is significantly harder to jump through hoops than it is for you, that is a valid reason to make sure any barriers that exist are essential. Whether it is voter ID or other barriers we should make sure there is a very good reason for making it hard to vote.
With no evidence of significant fraud and a large number of people prevented from voting, there is no reason for many of the barriers that exist. You underestimate how hard it is for many to overcome those barriers.
I’m sorry, if you can’t provide an ID you shouldn’t be able to vote. Having an ID shouldn’t be an issue for any adult. |
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 12, 2020 9:58:01 GMT -6
I'm familiar with the process. I'm also familiar with Democrats that purposefully make it easier for fraudulent votes to be cast.
Hell, look at Muncie. Beech Grove Cemetery has some of the best voter turnout in the state.
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Post by villagepub on Nov 12, 2020 10:24:40 GMT -6
If it were up to Democrats, people could just walk up cast a vote, walk out, walk back in, lather, rinse, repeat. Every vote counts, wherever it came from. Cemeteries, Mexico, the land of make-believe... That is simply not true. Do you have any idea how people register to vote and how much effort goes into making the elections work properly. With a very good record of success.
It is a process that does not endure regular, detailed audits. It has become pretty much a joke. If you take pride in how the election process currently works, then God love you. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 11:33:42 GMT -6
That would be true of all those bureaucratic hoops you complain about. Surely you don't mean to say that.
If the government makes you jump through bureaucratic hoops you respond by voting to lower the barriers. In this case it's catch 22 if you can't vote...
Voting ought to be a fundamental civil right. If there is a class of people for whom it is significantly harder to jump through hoops than it is for you, that is a valid reason to make sure any barriers that exist are essential. Whether it is voter ID or other barriers we should make sure there is a very good reason for making it hard to vote.
With no evidence of significant fraud and a large number of people prevented from voting, there is no reason for many of the barriers that exist. You underestimate how hard it is for many to overcome those barriers.
I’m sorry, if you can’t provide an ID you shouldn’t be able to vote. Having an ID shouldn’t be an issue for any adult. In practice not so simple as it sounds.
This is not the simple requirement of any ID, it is the requirement of a specific form of identification that many adults will have difficulty obtaining.
But the other question is why is it needed in absence of any real problem with voter fraud.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 11:41:34 GMT -6
That is simply not true. Do you have any idea how people register to vote and how much effort goes into making the elections work properly. With a very good record of success.
It is a process that does not endure regular, detailed audits. It has become pretty much a joke. If you take pride in how the election process currently works, then God love you. What kind of "detailed audit" do you propose? Are you aware of any such audit that showed any substantial problem?
For what reason is it a "joke" to you?
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 12, 2020 11:50:40 GMT -6
But the other question is why is it needed in absence of any real problem with voter fraud.
Seriously? I think you're just messing with us now. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 11:59:41 GMT -6
I'm familiar with the process. I'm also familiar with Democrats that purposefully make it easier for fraudulent votes to be cast. Hell, look at Muncie. Beech Grove Cemetery has some of the best voter turnout in the state. No reputable study including that by the GOP Congress and State Houses has shown any big problem.
But. Since you have this knowledge, I would contact law enforcement. These fraudulent votes would be crimes. The Democrats who abet the voting also should face the law.
You should not conceal it. Provide the facts.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 12, 2020 13:31:30 GMT -6
But the other question is why is it needed in absence of any real problem with voter fraud.
Seriously? I think you're just messing with us now. The age-old question: is he really that stupid or is he just trolling? |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 14:12:31 GMT -6
But the other question is why is it needed in absence of any real problem with voter fraud.
Seriously? I think you're just messing with us now. Why don't you detail the extent of the problem with voter fraud.
Whether risking excluding legitimate voters is worth it or not depends on the extent of the problem.
There is evidence of rare and isolated voter fraud, I believe. There is a lot of talk about graveyards having good voter turnout and the like, but no evidence of any substantial number of such cases.
I am quite serious that we should make voting something that has only the absolutely necessary restrictions and to make it easy for voters to meet those restrictions. Might mean some expense to do that.
I oppose strict measures that exclude many voters, if we cut down on what is only very rare fraud. Too much harm for small benefit.
I oppose fraud, I'll support you if you take that evidence you have of ANY fraud to law enforcement. If any substantial number do that it will deter the fraud.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 14:15:35 GMT -6
Seriously? I think you're just messing with us now. The age-old question: is he really that stupid or is he just trolling? You smart guys can just show me the evidence of widespread fraud. And then show how the measures you want enforced reduce the fraud and don't restrict too many people. Should be easy for you to do, since you are convinced on the matter. |
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Post by villagepub on Nov 12, 2020 14:51:28 GMT -6
It is a process that does not endure regular, detailed audits. It has become pretty much a joke. If you take pride in how the election process currently works, then God love you. What kind of "detailed audit" do you propose? Are you aware of any such audit that showed any substantial problem?
For what reason is it a "joke" to you?
The election is the most important process that occurs in this country. It is not audited on a regular basis, only when someone complains. The federal government spends more time auditing the financial actions of the private sector much more frequently than it audits the regular action of an election. The processing of individual votes is not transparent enough to the general public to avoid regular and surprise audits of the election process. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 15:29:25 GMT -6
What kind of "detailed audit" do you propose? Are you aware of any such audit that showed any substantial problem?
For what reason is it a "joke" to you?
The election is the most important process that occurs in this country. It is not audited on a regular basis, only when someone complains. The federal government spends more time auditing the financial actions of the private sector much more frequently than it audits the regular action of an election. The processing of individual votes is not transparent enough to the general public to avoid regular and surprise audits of the election process. I agree voting is important. However, there aren't very many people who study voting for a living who agree we need a lot more scrutiny of the elections.
The evidence is pretty strong we should spend more time and money on reviewing financial transactions of publicly traded companies. There is far more incentive for "creative accounting" and outright fraud in those companies.
Note that the private companies all have other reasons to have good accounting procedures and employ an army of accountants. Those accountants provide the information to the other accountants who prepare the certified statements for government requirements. A good system.
That regulation was created when there was overwhelming evidence of blue sky financial statements and a great failure resulting from that. It was done at the federal level precisely because uniformity was required and because states were not up to dealing with something that was the heart of the national economy.
There is no real parallel to the voting system.
Adding more people in the vote counting or regularly performing a close examination of the results afterwards is likely not necessary given the very small amount of evidence of the need for it. Repeated congressional and state legislative studies have looked at voter fraud and said as much.
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