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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 7:48:30 GMT -6
Yea we don't know much about jones.. like is he ever really going to play Recent news stories repeat that he is expected to play, but we heard that through last year. Who knows?
It's a big variable if he can play and is at least as good as he was in the MAC. He'd be a starter then. And a player highly motivated with the bonus year and have a lot to prove. And he is just one of several players with that potential.
We started this thread looking at only the returning players like Bumb, Acree, Thomas, Soukas, Hendricks and Huggy. All needed to mature and improve.
Real optimism is not warranted, with so many unknowns. Prediction of disaster also not warranted.
On the good news side, we have now Cochran, Jacobs, Jones, Pearson, and Windham who might have made up quite a recruiting class, but haven't really seen them play or play very much. Only Jones is a one year shot. Not to mention our fairly good current recruiting class.
On the bad news side, our "proven" quantities we have seen play, and who played the most would need to improve greatly as a group to be at all competitive, having lost 5 players who had played so many minutes. All in all, if we want to be any good, we need 4 of the 8 newcomers to realize their potential, at least by seasons end when we head into the MAC tourney. With quality recruits and transfers, none of which look like projects we should find 3 or 4 who play a lot. How well is the question.
I don't think I have seen a comparable situation in 50 years watching BSU where it is not clear what talent we have and whether we are disaster or maybe even a contender.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jun 9, 2021 8:28:29 GMT -6
Well at this point last year the head coach and story tellers was telling us that Jones was going to play.. We later learned that the head coach knew he was injured and really was just hoping. At one point last year mid season we learned Jones had yet to even practice for us. We don't know if he ever did if so it was very late in the season. So if he does play your looking at a guy who had not played in almost 2 years. He could help but tabbing him as a solid contributor is just not we should do unless you borrowed kids Hazy and now even broken crystal ball
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jun 9, 2021 8:35:04 GMT -6
I totally agree with you though on the part of we just don't know. It's really odd if a couple of these guys hit we could be a good team if not we could terrible. Smart money and track record shows that again we will probably just be middling
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 9:57:06 GMT -6
Almost by definition middling is where most teams end up, especially true for a team team with this much uncertainty. EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. The development of talent and fitting it together, motivation of players, is often hard to separate from simply getting a load of talent, or getting coachable talent. Or having the star player who can carry a team. Even great scouting, preparation, planning are not going to help if you don't get effort and focus by the players. You often need competition for PT to get that. We certainly lacked that last year as we too often barely had enough players to practice without walk-ons and Botts.
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Post by sweep on Jun 9, 2021 10:09:10 GMT -6
EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. Yeah Dambrot was only in the MAC 15 years.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 10:57:47 GMT -6
EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. Yeah Dambrot was only in the MAC 15 years. I always wondered about that. He had good contract and loved his job apparently. Must have had chances. Maybe just not the network of being part of a coaching tree, lack of big school experience. UB coach certainly has done well. Better recruiter?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jun 9, 2021 11:31:38 GMT -6
Almost by definition middling is where most teams end up, especially true for a team team with this much uncertainty. EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. The development of talent and fitting it together, motivation of players, is often hard to separate from simply getting a load of talent, or getting coachable talent. Or having the star player who can carry a team. Even great scouting, preparation, planning are not going to help if you don't get effort and focus by the players. You often need competition for PT to get that. We certainly lacked that last year as we too often barely had enough players to practice without walk-ons and Botts. True but in almost every case except ours the sun shines on a middling dogs ass and he does something great.. We have not seen that in forever.. We will it ever happen probably not unless there is some kind of change to break the norm
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Post by williamtsherman on Jun 9, 2021 12:04:03 GMT -6
Almost by definition middling is where most teams end up, especially true for a team team with this much uncertainty. EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. The development of talent and fitting it together, motivation of players, is often hard to separate from simply getting a load of talent, or getting coachable talent. Or having the star player who can carry a team. Even great scouting, preparation, planning are not going to help if you don't get effort and focus by the players. You often need competition for PT to get that. We certainly lacked that last year as we too often barely had enough players to practice without walk-ons and Botts. True but in almost every case except ours the sun shines on a middling dogs ass and he does something great.. We have not seen that in forever.. We will it ever happen probably not unless there is some kind of change to break the norm It's just a fact that MAC schools don't have the resources to attract a coach capable of winning a MAC championship. But we still have a cohort of unrealistic fans who just don't understand this.
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Post by villagepub on Jun 9, 2021 12:22:15 GMT -6
True but in almost every case except ours the sun shines on a middling dogs ass and he does something great.. We have not seen that in forever.. We will it ever happen probably not unless there is some kind of change to break the norm It's just a fact that MAC schools don't have the resources to attract a coach capable of winning a MAC championship. But we still have a cohort of unrealistic fans who just don't understand this. Except for that one coach, each year, that someone happened to attract that does happen to win the MAC Championship.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 12:58:22 GMT -6
It's just a fact that MAC schools don't have the resources to attract a coach capable of winning a MAC championship. But we still have a cohort of unrealistic fans who just don't understand this. Except for that one coach, each year, that someone happened to attract that does happen to win the MAC Championship. 3 Programs have attracted the coaches you are talking about that won the majority of those championships. A couple of those coaches multiple wins. When their coach moves on, they have hired well. It isn't luck. Easier to do when you have a good roster, support assistants and offer good salary and overall support, these are among the better funded and most committed programs.
When BSU finds more funding and makes a commitment, we will be more likely to "get lucky" too.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 13:05:33 GMT -6
Almost by definition middling is where most teams end up, especially true for a team team with this much uncertainty. EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. The development of talent and fitting it together, motivation of players, is often hard to separate from simply getting a load of talent, or getting coachable talent. Or having the star player who can carry a team. Even great scouting, preparation, planning are not going to help if you don't get effort and focus by the players. You often need competition for PT to get that. We certainly lacked that last year as we too often barely had enough players to practice without walk-ons and Botts. True but in almost every case except ours the sun shines on a middling dogs ass and he does something great.. We have not seen that in forever.. We will it ever happen probably not unless there is some kind of change to break the norm It may seem that way. It is not true, though. Most dog ass rosters get the same results, and most teams, excepting a few, do not hire coaches who are masters at putting together roster and developing players. There are 3 or maybe 4 programs who seem to hire better coaches. Most MAC programs with dog ass rosters do about the same as we do...hey, we may actually do better. Assuming our roster has been as terrible as many critics say it has been.
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Post by realitycheck on Jun 9, 2021 13:11:25 GMT -6
Almost by definition middling is where most teams end up, especially true for a team team with this much uncertainty. EXCEPT. There are those very best coaches who seem to always get more out of players than anyone else. You don't see those (not for long anyway) in the MAC. The development of talent and fitting it together, motivation of players, is often hard to separate from simply getting a load of talent, or getting coachable talent. Or having the star player who can carry a team. Even great scouting, preparation, planning are not going to help if you don't get effort and focus by the players. You often need competition for PT to get that. We certainly lacked that last year as we too often barely had enough players to practice without walk-ons and Botts. You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict next year. Here are some semi-important pesky facts: 1.) We don't have one of those "very, best coaches". 2.) We don't have a single honorable mention, 2nd or 1st team returnee. 3.) We lost 80% of our scoring, assists and rebounding 4.) We have six new players, 2 new coaches and a lack of on court leaders. 5.) We have a tradition of mediocrity under our current regime. 6.) We have no front-court presence. My prediction is the same as every other year. Flashes of talent and success when we shoot well, inconsistent play and pushed around by more physical teams, dominance by the East teams and a flurry of excuses and "reasons" why we crashed again followed by an early exit from the MAC tourney. 14-17 sounds about right. 7-11 in the league. Change my mind.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 9, 2021 14:03:40 GMT -6
You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict next year. Here are some semi-important pesky facts: You are braver than I am to predict a record, not knowing how the new guys fit in.
My comments have acknowledged the players we lost and lack of proven inside players would be problems and have focused on just not knowing about the new players. Player talent certainly counts more than our recent "tradition" and other factors you mention. And we have been better over the past 6 years or so than your predicted finish with a losing record, when we have some talent.
Whether we can do better than you predict depends on how these guys play, not on our tradition, and we can certainly do better than you predict without the top coach in the MAC if they perform. The main difference in this case of turnover of talent is that we don't have a load of incoming freshmen so it's an unusual turnover and I have seen nothing like it. You can go back maybe to the year Majerus came in, and brought in transfers could not play right away. A great coach didn't help with poor returning talent. And then there was the year Ronnie came in when we had a lot of turnover...
Rob and I are both remarking that this is an unusual and somewhat unpredictable year. Predicting abject failure is premature. Predicting middling success in a year where we lost so much and have no talent returning would usually mean very good coaching. So it could be you are an optimist about that I suppose.
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Post by david75bsu on Jun 9, 2021 16:58:37 GMT -6
IMO, we have talent coming in. We have a better coaching bench. The issue is how well will all the new talent blend with the old to form a good team. I plan on relooking at all the new and returning talent and give a projection. The tough part will be saying who starts. Will probably give two players per position and than say the hardest worker with the most talent starts. IMO, the potential is their for a good year, the problem is it may not jell until later in the season
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Post by williamtsherman on Jun 9, 2021 17:22:29 GMT -6
You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict next year. Here are some semi-important pesky facts: 1.) We don't have one of those "very, best coaches". 2.) We don't have a single honorable mention, 2nd or 1st team returnee. 3.) We lost 80% of our scoring, assists and rebounding 4.) We have six new players, 2 new coaches and a lack of on court leaders. 5.) We have a tradition of mediocrity under our current regime. 6.) We have no front-court presence. My prediction is the same as every other year. Flashes of talent and success when we shoot well, inconsistent play and pushed around by more physical teams, dominance by the East teams and a flurry of excuses and "reasons" why we crashed again followed by an early exit from the MAC tourney. 14-17 sounds about right. 7-11 in the league. Change my mind. Jeez, I get so tired of the doom-and-gloom Debbie Downers on this site. "Smart guys" like Realitycheck are completely discounting several plausible scenarios that would lead to a BSU mac championship simply because they are whiners who just want something to complain about. One such scenario, which is possibly the most likely, is that some BSU professor will come up with an astounding invention (such as "flubber" in The Absent Minded Professor) that gives the BSU players an unstoppable advantage. How does Realitycheck know something like this is NOT being developed right now in the Cooper Science Building. HE DOESN'T. He's just a Negative Nancy with a big mouth!
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