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Post by 00hmh on Oct 20, 2022 19:56:53 GMT -6
I see your point about the demand being dormant. I agree being pent up means it will easily come if only we make relatively small change. Yes, we will need a great effort to find and bring in the local community.
I do not agree so much that students have so much desire to seek out live entertainment.
But again it is absolutely true we need good PR to try to get students involved and bring back whatever community support there is out there.
The issue I have with calling it dormant is that implies it is still potentially there, that the same amount of support is there but perhaps just asleep or turned off. Much of that demand would better be described as moribund. Too many of those in the community who once supported BSU BB just aren't there anymore at all. Plus many who are still here, just like students, now have options to watch BB on TV and to choose other entertainment.
Live BSU BB will NEVER have the status it once had. The goal with the better PR is to turn some that back on. That PR thing is not so easy with much less local press attention and many fewer locals even reading the local press, or listening to the local radio that covers BSU. Smaller market, different demographic in terms of income, connection to BSU, or being BB fans at all. AND that means much more PR needed to get any kind of result, much less match past heights.
How well season tickets sell if we can field a successful team, how well we can draw for the few attractive games before conference, and whether anybody really cares about MAC games will be answered over the next few years.
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Post by CallingBS on Oct 21, 2022 6:44:38 GMT -6
It's really not that difficult. You start a month out, get the paper & Woof Boom to promote it and Sportslink to preview and cover it. Share it all over socials including a couple of player TikToks. Get your Pizza sponsor to giveaway free pizza to the first 1000 students/fans and give away a few more sponsor prizes. You'd get the equivalent of a typical home game probably 2500. The fan base gets hyped and we're gonna crush our first 3 opponents anyway. It's just a missed opportunity for a fan base that's been thirsting in the desert for years. If there's one thing BSU athletics has proven a master at--regardless of who is in charge--it's blowing opportunities. You better have a good product before you hype, though. People will definitely take an "is this for real" approach, and if BSU hypes garbage again, it just falls deeper into the lack of credibility and relevance hole. There's a reason Lewis wants to lay low. As I'm sure Sherm would agree, the proof will be in Lewis' recruiting the next handful of months. |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 21, 2022 7:42:00 GMT -6
It's really not that difficult...It's just a missed opportunity for a fan base that's been thirsting in the desert for years. You better have a good product before you hype, though. People will definitely take an "is this for real" approach, and if BSU hypes garbage again, it just falls deeper into the lack of credibility and relevance hole. There's a reason Lewis wants to lay low. As I'm sure Sherm would agree, the proof will be in Lewis' recruiting the next handful of months. Odds are good he can establish himself in Indiana, and what he did this year shows he will go outside that footprint for athletic players he can develop. And some should be ready to contribute, I liked the idea of going JUCO and 5th year transfer for some seasoned recruits as well as a transfer like Coleman.
The proof may be keeping PBJ another year as well as a recruiting coup of a really good player to push us over the top.
Recruiting to build for the future seems to be less important than ever before, when you do find an develop players you are running on the transfer portal treadmill, where you are going to lose them and have to grab players ready to go out of the box each year.
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Post by mjtcpa on Oct 21, 2022 8:38:11 GMT -6
I was hoping for a "Nickel beer night"
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Post by realitycheck on Oct 21, 2022 13:29:32 GMT -6
I see your point about the demand being dormant. I agree being pent up means it will easily come if only we make relatively small change. Yes, we will need a great effort to find and bring in the local community. I do not agree so much that students have so much desire to seek out live entertainment. But again it is absolutely true we need good PR to try to get students involved and bring back whatever community support there is out there. The issue I have with calling it dormant is that implies it is still potentially there, that the same amount of support is there but perhaps just asleep or turned off. Much of that demand would better be described as moribund. Too many of those in the community who once supported BSU BB just aren't there anymore at all. Plus many who are still here, just like students, now have options to watch BB on TV and to choose other entertainment. Live BSU BB will NEVER have the status it once had. The goal with the better PR is to turn some that back on. That PR thing is not so easy with much less local press attention and many fewer locals even reading the local press, or listening to the local radio that covers BSU. Smaller market, different demographic in terms of income, connection to BSU, or being BB fans at all. AND that means much more PR needed to get any kind of result, much less match past heights. How well season tickets sell if we can field a successful team, how well we can draw for the few attractive games before conference, and whether anybody really cares about MAC games will be answered over the next few years. I think this is just a defeatist attitude which shouldn't surprise anyone. Muncie and Delaware County certainly have their challenges to overcome and I'm not expecting 10,000 people at a game but if you have a really good product/event then word spreads quickly and people will come. Since there isn't the same bevy of entertainment opportunities here compared to Fishers, Carmel and the Northside of Indy, it doesn't take much to stand out. I've attended several downtown Muncie events recently (Soup Crawl, Artswalk, Summer Heat) that had several thousand people show up and it was a blast. They were well-promoted, had lots of fun things to do, good food, beverages, entertainment. Students will come for free stuff (shirts & food) and will return if the team gets some momentum and the coach has a big personality which Lewis does. I don't blame him for not wanting to bang the drum too loudly yet. If we fall flat it will look bad and frankly I think he's just looking to establish some toughness and doesn't want to distract from that with any fanfare. I still think we should have given it a standalone night and 30 minutes of intros and a little fun to give the fans some excitement. |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 21, 2022 14:16:39 GMT -6
I don't think the demographic for the soup crawl, art walk and Summer Heat is quite the same as for season tickets in basketball. Or for a BB Midnight Madness. Could be. We'll see what the interest is.
All those things get promotion because of the connection to downtown, and any number of organizations and civic groups support them. Not just a little Radio mention and SP story. Which story I don't think would be as powerful as the coverage the events on the common from all sources.
I agree with you on making more efforts for our sports entertainment offerings, just don't think it is easy at all to get results, and am a skeptic about students showing up for free pizza, and doing anything except maybe eat a slice. Not without quite an effort on our part to provide other entertainment than just basketball.
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 21, 2022 17:08:24 GMT -6
Don't bother RC. You can't argue with the sort of mindset that accepts the likes of Whitford as an adequate coach for BSU. Expectations low, excuses high.
One thing about the younger folks, they seem much more prone to following the crowd these days. For example, they tend to be the enforcers of establishment political dogma, rather than rebels against it. If BSU basketball were somehow to become "the thing" some fine winter, this tendency could work to the programs advantage.
As I keep saying, I personally saw the world's largest HS arena packed literally to standing room only for a basketball sectionals a few years back. The Luke Brown Blackford crowd was only about 25% of it. The rest was due to Hamilton Heights, New Castle and especially Delta having good, successful teams...demographic and economic trends notwithstanding. Don't listen to the speculation of defeatist wankers.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 21, 2022 22:57:54 GMT -6
Sure, General.
FOUR communities in HS tournament play is just the same as BSU drawing fans for MAC BB in January.
Let's just count on that!
NC used to sell out that building for home games. Not now.
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 22, 2022 7:07:48 GMT -6
You may be unaware, but the Ball State community is...you know...somewhat larger than that of any of those high schools.
What is the exact maximum potential attendance for BSU basketball? who knows? the point is that people in the communities in this region are NOT so completely demographically and economically depressed, or so taken by modern entertainment alternatives, that it is impossible to interest them in good quality live basketball, and to draw good crowds for the same.
Is the average of, say, 1991 reachable? Doubtful. However, I hope for the following, which I believe to be possible with a successful coach:
*A larger average attendance than that of any of the 4 previous coaches, that were supported for so long and for whom so many excuses were made by certain members of this board.
*At least an occasional game where those embarrassing tarps have to be removed to accommodate the crowd.
*A level of attendance and interest that makes BSU basketball a cost effective PR effort for the school, rather than just a somewhat-less-stupid and not-as-huge waste of money as BSU football. (Note that I can't tell you exactly what level of attendance this is, but just know it's larger than that of the last 20 years)
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 22, 2022 8:47:37 GMT -6
You may be unaware, but the Ball State community is...you know...somewhat larger than that of any of those high schools. We are talking ONE game in the tournament where the communities were relatively easily motivated to turn out. Especially compared to a BSU home BB opponent in games that don't have the same importance to the communities.
Current student enrollment at BSU may be bigger, I suppose. The number of locals who are alumni or otherwise affiliated with the local HS, compared to locals affiliated with BSU, I am not so sure? BSU grads don't stay in town and send their kids to BSU, see their grandkids at the same school.
Think back a minute. In your youth in the golden era of BSU basketball that same argument about local communities would have been true, but we never had as many students in the gym as you might see at that HS tournament event you are using as comparison. That was with fewer competing sports events and local entertainment options. With significantly greater local interest in BB.
What we saw was more adults in the community pay for tickets. THAT is where population, disposable income, entertainment alternatives, and other demographics enter in. Not to mention that BSU BB had built the quality of the product over some years. I agree we can very likely improve our product, but don't think there are scores of fans who will turn out this year based on our turning some corner. They will need to see some results.
I agree with most of your post in terms of setting goals to improve. I am only arguing that contrary to the flip assumptions about how easy it is to promote, it is certainly no easy sell to accomplish much. You are dreaming if you think the local community is as affiliated with BSU as the local communities are affiliated with their local HS at tournament time for a single big game. Which big game event, by the way, is almost 100% absent from our home schedule.
There are a number of other demographics that are more relevant to building community ticket sales and student attendance at BSU than number of enrolled students. So on that count I am pretty sure you are wrong to give it much weight.
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 22, 2022 9:15:28 GMT -6
blah blah blah. I stated three clear...well, two clear goals. Are you saying with all your half-baked blather that they are not possible? Or are you just blathering to blather?
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 22, 2022 9:50:42 GMT -6
blah blah blah. I stated three clear...well, two clear goals. Are you saying with all your half-baked blather that they are not possible? Or are you just blathering to blather? No. I disagreed with the specious arguments you made earlier supporting the idea this was an easy job to do, and your evidence for that by comparison to a HS tournament session. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 22, 2022 10:28:53 GMT -6
blah blah blah. I stated three clear...well, two clear goals. Are you saying with all your half-baked blather that they are not possible? Or are you just blathering to blather? No. I disagreed with the specious arguments you made earlier supporting the idea this was an easy job to do, and your evidence for that by comparison to a HS tournament session. Well then you can no doubt point out my quotes saying "this was an easy job to do". Or maybe you're indulging in your frequent habit of lying about what others post, as I recently caught you doing? |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Oct 22, 2022 17:53:54 GMT -6
Don't bother Sherman. You can't argue with the sort of mindset that accepts the likes of Whitford as an adequate coach for BSU.
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Post by villagepub on Oct 23, 2022 14:03:44 GMT -6
On the bright side, at least Coach Lewis had our defense moving its feet. That's a plus over the past couple of years.
I hope this translates into better defensive movement in real games. Player movement. What a novel idea.
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