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Post by 00hmh on Feb 14, 2024 9:55:54 GMT -6
Let me make clear first that, while currently very disappointed, I have not given up on Lewis... But you guys haven't been paying any attention if you don't realize that these things we are seeing now ARE excuses.... The BSU administration has shown repeatedly that they are extremely disinclined to make coaching changes. Not only don't they like to break their ill-advised, over-long contracts and buy out, they will actually extend coaches who have accomplished basically nothing over multiple years. We do agree that Lewis is in a spot where if he wants to be successful he has to make some very good moves this off season.
As for excuses. Administrators do think differently than fans. Mostly because they have to actually pay for what you see as an easy decision to fire a coach and hire a new one.
Much of our history has been explained by financial decisions. Much of it has to do with administration having multiple problems to solve and choosing to prioritize something other than a difficult and uncertain decision about the coaching.
For that matter poor performance should often be excused. And excuse can be "just an excuse" without a basis or it can be an explanation that needs to considered. In the real world, if administrators are aware of the things we can't observe, their actions will diverge. There are explanations for poor results, for example injury, or late key recruiting losses, discipline problems and so on that are not really due to coach error in any way, these explanations are not "excuses."
It's far to easy for fans to convince themselves a coach doesn't practice hard enough, or coddles players, or abuses players, or whatever, by simply seeing the poor performance and saying that is evidence of whatever your perception is. In fact, if you observed practice or actually saw player interaction in practice with the coach, or discussed the issues with the coach, an administrator might find it not so simple as it seems to us.
cardfan and others have it right on this argument. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 14, 2024 11:12:47 GMT -6
Oh, I see. It's perfectly acceptable to go 23 years without even making it as far as your conference tourney final because the BSU administration has all these insoluble challenges that we aren't smart enough to understand or even be aware of. Problems that some other MAC administrations apparently do not have to deal with.
Got it.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 14, 2024 13:38:37 GMT -6
Oh, I see. It's perfectly acceptable to go 23 years without even making it as far as your conference tourney final because the BSU administration has all these insoluble challenges that we aren't smart enough to understand or even be aware of. Problems that some other MAC administrations apparently do not have to deal with. Yes, it is true some MAC programs have not had our problems...
None hired Ronnie Thompson, and most have better finances for athletics to handle the deficit they all run with football.
I will not argue we have had great administrative decision making. If you look at other "have not" programs it's still not a good record. Maybe the worst in the conference. No argument there.
What I am arguing is that the problem is not excuse making and not and unusual lack of will to win. Except that all university administration certainly cares less about winning than fans do.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 14, 2024 14:07:26 GMT -6
Oh, I see. It's perfectly acceptable to go 23 years without even making it as far as your conference tourney final because the BSU administration has all these insoluble challenges that we aren't smart enough to understand or even be aware of. Problems that some other MAC administrations apparently do not have to deal with. Yes, it is true some MAC programs have not had our problems...
None hired Ronnie Thompson, and most have better finances for athletics to handle the deficit they all run with football.
I will not argue we have had great administrative decision making. If you look at other "have not" programs it's still not a good record. Maybe the worst in the conference. No argument there.
What I am arguing is that the problem is not excuse making and not and unusual lack of will to win. Except that all university administration certainly cares less about winning than fans do.
Hiring Ronnie Thompson was entirely self-inflicted by the administration...not some special disadvantage that was forced on BSU. The most cursory series of phone calls would have revealed what a nasty piece of work he is. He doesn't trouble much to hide it. Excuse making most definitely IS a big part of the problem and was deployed on behalf of Buckley, Taylor and Whitford to waste multiple years of our lives with their excessively long tenures of employment. |
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Post by david75bsu on Feb 14, 2024 15:12:00 GMT -6
I will not be making a men’s basketball game this year. Would love to be there and support the hard work of our starting five. Just can’t force myself to watch another loss. Same goes for football. I’ll make homecoming, that’s it. Not wasting money on season tickets. I have lost all faith in our administration providing sufficient support behind these two programs. Good luck to all Cardinal teams.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 14, 2024 15:30:46 GMT -6
Yes, it is true some MAC programs have not had our problems...
None hired Ronnie Thompson, and most have better finances for athletics to handle the deficit they all run with football.
I will not argue we have had great administrative decision making. If you look at other "have not" programs it's still not a good record. Maybe the worst in the conference. No argument there.
What I am arguing is that the problem is not excuse making and not and unusual lack of will to win. Except that all university administration certainly cares less about winning than fans do.
Hiring Ronnie Thompson was entirely self-inflicted by the administration...not some special disadvantage that was forced on BSU. The most cursory series of phone calls would have revealed what a nasty piece of work he is. He doesn't trouble much to hide it. Excuse making most definitely IS a big part of the problem and was deployed on behalf of Buckley, Taylor and Whitford to waste multiple years of our lives with their excessively long tenures of employment. There was an error hiring Thompson, it wasn't lack of desire to win, and whatever kept Buckley here came after the error made to be cheap with Ray. That had worked with Ray early on. As Ray realized that, they let him go. We got lucky when we hired him, but the idea (or dream fantasy)that BSU had that you could win cheap was still driving the truck. The rest is history. Not lack of will to win, early lack of willingness to pay for it. Ronnie was a symptom of that, too, then a separate cause of a deeper hole. No other MAC program is such a case study in poor management. Recent managers at AD level are relatively innocent victims of the combination of cheap plus a dreadful hiring error. The thing just snowballed out of control with deteriorating finances for MAC FB exacerbating the problem. We most likely will not solve BB until we deal with MAC FB. It won't be excuses or lack of will to win which hold us back. There's a real substantive issue. NIL is the latest. |
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Post by realitycheck on Feb 14, 2024 19:22:56 GMT -6
Let me make clear first that, while currently very disappointed, I have not given up on Lewis. He took an ass-whuppin from the portal last year (and is currently paying the price), but maybe he's learned something? This next off season and portal is absolutely vital. But you guys haven't been paying any attention if you don't realize that these things we are seeing now ARE excuses. And I don't mean just by dim-witted posters on this board. They are a preview of what we will hear from the administration if it comes time to make a hard decision on Lewis. The BSU administration has shown repeatedly that they are extremely disinclined to make coaching changes. Not only don't they like to break their ill-advised, over-long contracts and buy out, they will actually extend coaches who have accomplished basically nothing over multiple years. Repeated failed and underachieving season do not bother them like they bother us. And when they make these decisions, they don't have any better excuses than what we see here ahead of time from our establishment-worshipping friends on this board. The low-expectation, excuse-based culture of the BSU athletics department has been very accurately mirrored and previewed here throughout the Buckley, Taylor and Whitford years. You guys have noticed this....right? This is the first I’ve heard of this excuse making thing. Can you expound? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 15, 2024 8:26:07 GMT -6
The administration has, in fact, demonstrated a clear lack of desire to win in mens basketball. Combined with an ego-driven refusal to admit hiring mistakes, and probably also a disinclination to take on the bother of a coaching change.
There is overwhelming evidence for this: 6 years of Buckley, 6 years of Taylor, 9 years of Whitford. (F------ nine!)
Case closed.
Administrations that want to win do NOT do that.
I don't have the necessary timelines in front of me to answer, but has any BSU AD ever fired a basketball coach they hired themselves? I don't believe so. See above: "ego-driven refusal to admit hiring mistakes". Thankfully this factor is already eliminated for Lewis, should he fail in the portal again.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 15, 2024 10:03:57 GMT -6
The administration has, in fact, demonstrated a clear lack of desire to win in mens basketball. Combined with an ego-driven refusal to admit hiring mistakes, and probably also a disinclination to take on the bother of a coaching change. There is overwhelming evidence for this: 6 years of Buckley, 6 years of Taylor, 9 years of Whitford. (F------ nine!) Case closed. Administrations that want to win do NOT do that. I don't have the necessary timelines in front of me to answer, but has any BSU AD ever fired a basketball coach they hired themselves? I don't believe so. See above: "ego-driven refusal to admit hiring mistakes". Thankfully this factor is already eliminated for Lewis, should he fail in the portal again. You seem to be assuming that the AD who hires or extends a coach who is not successful intended that result. And, that hiring and extension decision is influenced not at all by financial decisions, and you assume that making a change is not costly and difficult. Yes, an AD does try to avoid that. We do not disagree that there are other priorities than winning that can influence choices. That's the real world. |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 15, 2024 10:41:29 GMT -6
Why would I block 00? His lengthy posts are like this:  That's exactly why you should block him. |
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 15, 2024 12:04:55 GMT -6
Why would I block 00? His lengthy posts are like this: That's exactly why you should block him. Especially if you can't hit any of the supposedly many targets...but merely repeat you are frustrated by not doing as well as we want for 20 years, which no post I've ever made would argue about. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 15, 2024 12:10:50 GMT -6
It only looks like I'm not hitting because I keep putting bullets through the same hole in the bullseye.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 15, 2024 12:32:03 GMT -6
We see the usual excuse-making reflex when the administration is criticized, but the fact is the three Bozo coaches mentioned were actually each EXTENDED. That didn't really save any money but did save them from bother and from making an admission of failure.
Administrations bent on winning don't act like that. I say once again - the BSU administration has a low-expectation, excuse-based culture around men's basketball and that's the main reason we are into our third decade of consistent failure.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 15, 2024 12:59:54 GMT -6
I say once again - the BSU administration has a low-expectation, excuse-based culture around men's basketball and that's the main reason we are into our third decade of consistent failure. You've said that before? I think I would remember such a bold, novel idea. |
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 15, 2024 13:47:57 GMT -6
We see the usual excuse-making reflex when the administration is criticized, but the fact is the three Bozo coaches mentioned were actually each EXTENDED. That didn't really save any money but did save them from bother and from making an admission of failure. Administrations bent on winning don't act like that. I say once again - the BSU administration has a low-expectation, excuse-based culture around men's basketball and that's the main reason we are into our third decade of consistent failure. Actually, the extensions did save some money. We'd have needed a bigger salary... I tend to agree we have relatively low expectations, certainly we have low commitment to spend to improve. Given our budget that may be rational, a fact of life for us. Had we been serious about an upgrade and had resources to do it, I'd have been more skeptical to extend. Partly for that reason, for each of the three extended coaches, the decision was debatable, but defensible. If you're not willing to spend to upgrade, for whatever reason, that's a problem. Looking at the hires after Buckley and Billy, I don't see much reason to think we were ready or able to do much better had we not extended them. Sad, but true. Lewis seems to me an upgrade, not yet proven though. Why think an earlier search would have proven more successful? |
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