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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2024 22:59:04 GMT -6
You can't go back very far discussing program impact of transfer, anyway. Not and think about NIL as a factor. Or, for that matter no sit out easy transfer.
This is all new.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 10, 2024 9:27:49 GMT -6
I'm not going to defend Lewis' overall recruiting. I just don't think, as you seem to, that other MAC coaches are beating the shit out of him with their star-spangled portal recruits. Well, "star-spangled" is a relative term in the context of a shitty conference like the MAC. But BSU was 1-8 this season against the top 6 teams in the conference. I call that "beating the shit out of". Maybe you would require 0-9 before acknowledging shit being beat out of, I don't know. Anyway, our near total inability to handle the better MAC teams is the main reason we are left out of the MAC tourney like the clumsy fat kid that nobody wants on their team at recess. I made a cursory review earlier in the season that showed a majority of the starters on these teams were from the portal. And there were also cases like Enrique Freeman where desirable players were somehow retained against the portal, even though we are assured this is impossible. So, yes, I would state with no hesitation that the other MAC coaches did, in fact, very much beat the shit out of Lewis this season by more successfully recruiting the portal and by dealing with it in general. We can, as some here have suggested, take a whiney, woe-is-me, we-can't win attitude towards the portal, but that won't make it go away. The portal is now the most important factor in MAC roster building. Even if you initially acquire a player from HS, you still have to protect him from the portal long enough to get some value out of him. Lewis either has to deal with the portal more successfully or else, based on the established history of Ball State Basketball, we will have at least 4 more seasons to enjoy him berating bad teams from the sideline. Of course, the current level of portal success will keep us from suffering the anguish of annual first round losses in the MAC tourney...so there's that. |
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Post by mattg on Mar 10, 2024 10:12:13 GMT -6
For portal recruits I don’t care about a star rating per se. I hope we focus on players with a higher basketball IQ, strong frame, and a desire to be a vocal leader. We are missing out on a lot of those intangibles from our current roster. I would say a player that has all or some of those qualities is more than likely “rated” higher because these qualities lead to more on the court success, both in the stat sheet and wins column.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 10, 2024 12:00:32 GMT -6
I made a cursory review earlier in the season that showed a majority of the starters on these teams were from the portal. And there were also cases like Enrique Freeman where desirable players were somehow retained against the portal, even though we are assured this is impossible. Your cursory review was inaccurate. Also, we lost each of our three games to the top three teams in the conference by no more than 5 points, one of those was an overtime loss. Indeed, a loss is a loss, but I think most people would disagree that that constitutes "getting the shit beat out of you." |
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Post by bsutrack on Mar 10, 2024 22:55:57 GMT -6
Not gloomy or depressed, generally upbeat.
Lewis, Jihad and Anderson spoke about new roles this year.
Both players talked about what they learned, talent on the team, about competing every night. Mentioned how some painful losses at last minute had gotten through to them.
Lewis positive about team, how they were great to coach, came to play every day.
Did anyone else find fascinating the statements made by Lewis around the 11:05 to 12:00 mark on this press conference? It went something like this and I'm doing a little paraphrasing here. First he stated the obvious; "coaching jobs at our level open-up because either the previous coach was successful and moved-up, or they weren't successful and a change was made. I'm the 5th coach here in the past 25 years." Basically saying the 4 coaches (Buckley, Thompson, Taylor, and Whitford) prior to him were all fired due to failing. Then he says; "You need to pull back the layers and do a deep dive and try and understand why that has happened." To me he's really trying to figure-out why he for two years and Buckley, Taylor, and Whitfore (ignore Thompson because that's a different story) all failed and try to find someway not to repeat it. Then that all leads into his fear of U. Mass joining the conference which will mean them winning the MAC Tournament every year and with it the MAC's only NCCA Tournament bid. |
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Mar 11, 2024 6:20:14 GMT -6
Not gloomy or depressed, generally upbeat.
Lewis, Jihad and Anderson spoke about new roles this year.
Both players talked about what they learned, talent on the team, about competing every night. Mentioned how some painful losses at last minute had gotten through to them.
Lewis positive about team, how they were great to coach, came to play every day.
Did anyone else find fascinating the statements made by Lewis around the 11:05 to 12:00 mark on this press conference? It went something like this and I'm doing a little paraphrasing here. First he stated the obvious; "coaching jobs at our level open-up because either the previous coach was successful and moved-up, or they weren't successful and a change was made. I'm the 5th coach here in the past 25 years." Basically saying the 4 coaches (Buckley, Thompson, Taylor, and Whitford) prior to him were all fired due to failing. Then he says; "You need to pull back the layers and do a deep dive and try and understand why that has happened." To me he's really trying to figure-out why he for two years and Buckley, Taylor, and Whitfore (ignore Thompson because that's a different story) all failed and try to find someway not to repeat it. Then that all leads into his fear of U. Mass joining the conference which will mean them winning the MAC Tournament every year and with it the MAC's only NCCA Tournament bid. Blaming the Administration. No other way to read it. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 11, 2024 6:21:45 GMT -6
First he stated the obvious; "coaching jobs at our level open-up because either the previous coach was successful and moved-up, or they weren't successful and a change was made. I'm the 5th coach here in the past 25 years." Basically saying the 4 coaches (Buckley, Thompson, Taylor, and Whitford) prior to him were all fired due to failing. Then he says; "You need to pull back the layers and do a deep dive and try and understand why that has happened." To me he's really trying to figure-out why he for two years and Buckley, Taylor, and Whitfore (ignore Thompson because that's a different story) all failed and try to find someway not to repeat it. Then that all leads into his fear of U. Mass joining the conference which will mean them winning the MAC Tournament every year and with it the MAC's only NCCA Tournament bid. I'm glad he's thinking in those terms, but it's not hard to discover the root of the problem and it can be summed up in one word: Recruiting. And I hope he keeps the following perspective that some on this board can never quite grasp: Why has BSU basketball failed to even contend for 24 years WHILE EIGHT OF THEIR CONFERENCE PEERS MANAGED TO WIN AT LEAST ONE TITLE OVER THE SAME PERIOD? If you don't keep this crucial perspective, you end up just whining about the disadvantages all MAC schools face relative to the Big10, and it's just a time-wasting exercise in excuse making. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 11, 2024 8:02:29 GMT -6
Watching the press conference, Lurkin could be right that Lewis is trying to make excuses that he can't be really blamed for the downward trajectory of the program since his hire, due to underlying problems out of his control. On the other hand, he may be properly acting as the leader of the program in making a searching, hard-headed assessment of all the factors leading to our 24 years of failure. Hard to say without hearing more about what he is thinking.
The quarter century long failure of BSU basketball has been primarily a failure of coaching. The administration is, of course, also culpable since they hire the coaches and decide how long they will be employed. And the coaching failure is primarily a failure of recruiting. It has been correctly pointed out over and over on this board how the contending teams simply come into Worthen with better players than what we have had....frontcourt and backcourt.
If anyone is going to fix our main problem, recruiting, it's going to have to be Lewis himself....or his successor, four years from now. And it starts right now with hitting the portal like a m-----f-----. If, as leader of the program, he spearheads an effort to fix other problems, that's great, but this cannot distract him from recruiting, or lead him to make a bunch of excuses. We've seen quite enough of that during each and every one of the 24 years of failure , and it has gotten us nowhere.,
Recruiting has consequences.
Recruiters recruit.
Everything else is secondary to basketball success.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 11, 2024 8:14:45 GMT -6
I don't think anything has been consistent for 25 years.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 11, 2024 8:35:20 GMT -6
In the portal NIL era, recruiting has a new variable.
It's never been only about a coach, his effort, or his evaluation of talent. There have always been a few things outside a coach's control.
It's not that simple.
Lewis will be working hard, and I don't think there is quite the panic or crisis some see.
His off hand comments in the press conference weren't clear, weren't exactly a thought out message. I can't make much out of them.
I saw in the comments no excuses or blame. Recognition it's really hard to win, probably. Recognition some things he can control and do differently. Recognition players had improved. Since it's so obvious, there was also recognition and regret we didn't have more depth.
What could have been done is only really ever clear with 20-20 hindsight, I'd guess...
What I see looking at the last two press conferences, player and coach comments were not gloomy, distressed, beat down. Quite a bit positive. If anything they showed what I'd want. We have learned a lot, we won't live under some dark cloud, but use the negatives, work on what went wrong.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 11, 2024 8:48:10 GMT -6
I don't think anything has been consistent for 25 years. Wrong. Ball State basketball has been VERY consistent. |
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Post by CallingBS on Mar 11, 2024 8:51:10 GMT -6
Watching the press conference, Lurkin could be right that Lewis is trying to make excuses that he can't be really blamed for the downward trajectory of the program since his hire, due to underlying problems out of his control. On the other hand, he may be properly acting as the leader of the program in making a searching, hard-headed assessment of all the factors leading to our 24 years of failure. Hard to say without hearing more about what he is thinking. The quarter century long failure of BSU basketball has been primarily a failure of coaching. The administration is, of course, also culpable since they hire the coaches and decide how long they will be employed. And the coaching failure is primarily a failure of recruiting. It has been correctly pointed out over and over on this board how the contending teams simply come into Worthen with better players than what we have had....frontcourt and backcourt. If anyone is going to fix our main problem, recruiting, it's going to have to be Lewis himself....or his successor, four years from now. And it starts right now with hitting the portal like a m-----f-----. If, as leader of the program, he spearheads an effort to fix other problems, that's great, but this cannot distract him from recruiting, or lead him to make a bunch of excuses. We've seen quite enough of that during each and every one of the 24 years of failure , and it has gotten us nowhere., Recruiting has consequences.
Recruiters recruit.
Everything else is secondary to basketball success. While there's no doubt BSU fails to commit to basketball, I agree that the comments sure seem like excuses to me. He needs to raise his own NIL money and recruit like a mad man, period. |
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 11, 2024 9:10:53 GMT -6
I don't think anything has been consistent for 25 years. Wrong. Ball State basketball has been VERY consistent. Sherm, nobody working here will ever say "consistent" applies. Maybe, consistently inconsistent? Top down management? Maybe shrinking budget? But that means constant change for everybody, no autonomy, and no way for individuals to plan. Rug pulled out from under you if you do. |
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 11, 2024 9:27:13 GMT -6
Watching the press conference, Lurkin could be right that Lewis is trying to make excuses that he can't be really blamed for the downward trajectory of the program since his hire, due to underlying problems out of his control. On the other hand, he may be properly acting as the leader of the program in making a searching, hard-headed assessment of all the factor... While there's no doubt BSU fails to commit to basketball, I agree that the comments sure seem like excuses to me. He needs to raise his own NIL money and recruit like a mad man, period. If Lewis expected much more support he was misled or mistaken. He said recently he has been in discussion with unnamed BSU supporters and is happy to be planning for the future. I'll believe he can get much done short term when we see it. I don't understand how you think a coach longer term can really do much on his own in NIL. But assuming he can raise money somehow separate from the AD and not step on the toes of the guy who is his boss, he can't really control how that money is used, and that's bound to be a problem. Maybe at a school where big NIL money is there, NIL donors are going to be like a board of directors, effectively dictate to the AD and President, which is bad enough, but when your "big" donors don't give much it's probably worse. You're dreaming if you think we're going to get in the top tier in the MAC in dollar support, anyway. Everybody agrees he has to recruit hard. He's going to do that. I don't think it'll be with a big NIL war chest he can take advantage of. |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 11, 2024 11:14:59 GMT -6
As one who has argued on the past here that people shouldn't be quick to point to excuse-making whenever the coach complains about something. The comments at the last press conference struck me as excuse-making. But I do think he is expressing a confusion that we all agree with. Everyone here wonders why the hell we can't put a good team on the floor with all of our assets. But when you're the head coach you can't say that part out loud, because you're the guy whose supposed to answer the question, not ask it.
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