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Post by villagepub on May 10, 2024 7:23:53 GMT -6
Low 20k capacity in MLS requirement. Eleven Park, as of original design, was 20K, but was designed to be expanded. To prove to MLS they are ready, they will change the design with more seats. |
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Post by villagepub on May 10, 2024 7:25:48 GMT -6
There's more going on than just Indy Dem politics. Smells like bigger money. With the last name of Simon. Could be Jeff Smulyan as well. I still think the Indy Eleven site on the river makes sense. It ties together the White River (plans for eventual dredging to support water transportation) and the $120m, 220,000 square foot six-story Elanco world headquarters, planned for completion in Spring 2025. It also provides proximity to White River State Park, NCAA, Victory Field and Lucas Oil Stadium. Elanco HQ:  .jpg) |
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Post by 00hmh on May 10, 2024 8:12:06 GMT -6
There is a parking problem apparently. Existing parking would serve the other site. And there seems to be some kind of graveyard problem with the site. I like the idea of river development. It's already a dramatic change from the past.
My memory of the river go back to where I grew up in West Indy and remember crossing the old Washington St bridge and seeing Kingan's meat facility pouring red waste into the river and creating a stench. Picture included here
On the West side of the river on Washington St old city bus storage barn on the North side of the street. Factories South and in the low land, and North to Michigan St poor neighborhoods, Haughville going up to 16th St.
The Michigan, New York St corridor of older neighborhoods East of the river razed for IUPUI. The city has radically changed over 70 years.
Well outside downtown, North of Indiana Ave and West, there was public green space 16th to 38th street with 3 public golf courses. and of course the old amusement park next to the Naval Armory there.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on May 10, 2024 8:39:58 GMT -6
The Diamond Chain site makes much more sense, especially with Elanco going in. With the convention center a block away, Lucas Oil Stadium, the JW Marriott, Victory Field... It would really cap off that side of town.
If they could do something with the power plant, that part of downtown would be a really attractive area.
We knew about the graveyard, and remains are being respectfully moved.
There is plenty of parking to the south, east, and garages are included in the stadium plan. There is very little over by the heliport. Hence the need for the buses.
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Post by williamtsherman on May 10, 2024 12:40:10 GMT -6
The Diamond Chain site makes much more sense, especially with Elanco going in. With the convention center a block away, Lucas Oil Stadium, the JW Marriott, Victory Field... It would really cap off that side of town. If they could do something with the power plant, that part of downtown would be a really attractive area. We knew about the graveyard, and remains are being respectfully moved. There is plenty of parking to the south, east, and garages are included in the stadium plan. There is very little over by the heliport. Hence the need for the buses. I like the power plant. It has character. |
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Post by CallingBS on May 12, 2024 19:38:42 GMT -6
Getting in bed with government comes at a price...sometimes a very hefty one
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Indy MLS
May 12, 2024 20:27:36 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on May 12, 2024 20:27:36 GMT -6
Getting in bed with government comes at a price...sometimes a very hefty one No way to avoid that in major league sports, and in soccer... |
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Post by villagepub on May 16, 2024 6:33:40 GMT -6
There is a parking problem apparently. Existing parking would serve the other site. And there seems to be some kind of graveyard problem with the site. I like the idea of river development. It's already a dramatic change from the past.
My memory of the river go back to where I grew up in West Indy and remember crossing the old Washington St bridge and seeing Kingan's meat facility pouring red waste into the river and creating a stench. Picture included here
On the West side of the river on Washington St old city bus storage barn on the North side of the street. Factories South and in the low land, and North to Michigan St poor neighborhoods, Haughville going up to 16th St.
The Michigan, New York St corridor of older neighborhoods East of the river razed for IUPUI. The city has radically changed over 70 years.
Well outside downtown, North of Indiana Ave and West, there was public green space 16th to 38th street with 3 public golf courses. and of course the old amusement park next to the Naval Armory there.
The graves have been known for some time. A procedure was put in place to deal with the occurrences and their team was following procedure. Unknown graves have been found before in other development projects (public and private) and dealt with without totally pulling backing from the project. The grave issue is being overplayed by the current admin, and being used now as a major obstacle. Politics at its best. |
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Post by villagepub on May 16, 2024 6:37:40 GMT -6
Getting in bed with government comes at a price...sometimes a very hefty one No way to avoid that in major league sports, and in soccer... Yeah, but stay the course. Seating and parking can still be addressed at the Diamond Chain site. Cost will change, but that is development lifecycle. |
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Post by coastalcard on May 16, 2024 7:22:04 GMT -6
Wasn’t the graveyard at the Diamond Chain site for Civil War dead?
By current definition, the city should refuse to acknowledge that it ever existed and just move on.
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Indy MLS
May 16, 2024 8:43:37 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on May 16, 2024 8:43:37 GMT -6
That so many died might make somebody feel guilty about past racism?
Those slaves in the Confederacy just happened to be black...nobody thought they were anymore subhuman than the Irish...
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on May 16, 2024 10:32:36 GMT -6
Indy Chief Deputy Mayor Dan Parker:
“When you look at some of the stadiums that have been built in other cities, (The Mayor’s proposal) fits on this location better. The (Eleven Park) location is much tighter."
I don't know how they came to that conclusion, unless MLS fields are triangular now. A simple look at Google maps with their measuring tool, and you can see that the Diamond Chain location has at least 23 acres to work with, plenty for a stadium. For comparison, Lucas Oil Stadium has about 30 acres, including the south parking lot. The stadium itself takes about 15 of those acres.
The Pearl Street location has, at best, 18.5 acres. That is awfully tight, once you factor in walkways and entrances. They will also have an eminent domain fight with the La Quinta motel, and the office buildings at New Jersey and Pearl and at 603 E Washington.
It'll eliminate a lot of parking, but at least the high-end apartment/condos on the north side of Washington Street will have a better view. And it'll deaden some of the train noise.
The most concerning part of this is the unwillingness of Hogsett to explain himself. Who is really pulling the strings? Herb Simon? Apparently one of his subsidiaries recently bought some of the land within the new stadium footprint.
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Indy MLS
May 16, 2024 10:46:35 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on May 16, 2024 10:46:35 GMT -6
Hogsett cannot go it alone here.
The Statehouse must be a partner. To that level there will have to be transparency.
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Post by universityjim on May 16, 2024 10:53:53 GMT -6
I thought I read that MLS has stated repeatedly that they would never, ever, give the Indy Eleven ownership group a team, that they really didn't have sufficient funding to complete the Eleven Park project, and that it appeared their plan was to get it started and then dump it on the taxpayers. MLS actually approached Hogsett. That is the explanation I saw for why Hogsett (who I do not care for btw) and the city has taken the direction they have.
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Indy MLS
May 16, 2024 11:27:25 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on May 16, 2024 11:27:25 GMT -6
It certainly isn't clear why their original plan blew up.
Not all that likely we'll know. There undoubtedly are pluses and minuses with both plans. MLS would quite naturally favor deeper pockets.
I don't understand why Herb Simon should be a negative, but I'd bet any questions marks about financing are fatal at the Statehouse and with MLS.
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