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Post by frozenbaugh on Nov 11, 2019 8:37:21 GMT -6
I think it will be a long, long, long time before it gets to that point. I speculate the MAC will drop down and give it a good study before they'd agree to drop football permanently.
I'm not saying I'd want BSU to drop out of the MAC but they are not forward thinking enough to drop before the MAC does. Because they'd have to find a new conference and we can't trust them to make those kinds of decisions.
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Post by sweep on Nov 11, 2019 8:42:18 GMT -6
At some point, if the MAC wants to survive as a conference, it will be forced to drop the football requirement. Best current option is to wait that out.
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Post by sweep on Nov 11, 2019 8:52:05 GMT -6
I think it will be a long, long, long time before it gets to that point. I speculate the MAC will drop down and give it a good study before they'd agree to drop football permanently. I'm not saying I'd want BSU to drop out of the MAC but they are not forward thinking enough to drop before the MAC does. Because they'd have to find a new conference and we can't trust them to make those kinds of decisions. I think if the MAC tried to drop down you would have four teams who want to remain BCS and four teams who no longer want any football. It would be the end of the MAC.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2019 9:05:44 GMT -6
Very comforting to know we will continue to suck because, budget. It's not all about the budget, it has more to do with bad decisions and an unprofessional workplace where accountability takes a backseat. Disaster, like hiring Ronnie Thompson or firing Hunsaker are definitely not just budget. But budget influenced hiring Ronnie as the Pres wanted to get something for nothing under budget pressure.
While bad organization, and lack of good supervision and accountability surely contribute, very few Presidents or AD want to take risks. That makes big changes difficult.
And. When you hire cheap and don't give much budget to the AD, it's hard to reorganize. I give the current AD credit for tackling some problems. But even though she is very capable, and came at a time where turnover and retirement allowed for some change to be easier, I do not expect we can change course quickly and dramatically.
We can argue some close calls that did not work out, like Buckley's hire and extension. That's a big risk reward opportunity. I have often said we had a fleeting moment where we had to take a risk and invest some money. We did not. I get the penny pinching and all the reasons for it, but basketball had a chance to go very right 15-20 years ago and we not only didn't take a risk but made the biggest bonehead mistake in our history with Ronnie.
Some decisions that did not work were in the category of being decisions with little upside possible without budget. When Ronnie leaves and we are accused of racism and have seen him destroy our program, or when we lose a FB coach and have to pay buyout, or where many other expenses add up, it would have taken exceptional good luck to make much difference due to that budget constraint.
it's easy with 20-20 hindsight to say we could have done better many times. But some decisions AT THE TIME MADE were good enough decisions and defensible, just didn't work. Only a few others were bonehead. Some, partially based on budget constraint, but also based on penny pinching failure to take a risk were not defensible.
Ad job is hard. Just as you say above, it's maybe best to just drop football, purely rationally. But what a risky decision. Or. Might be better to go down a level. Easiest decision, and it might be better, is to stand pat and hope a miracle happens to rescue mid major football.
All these alternatives have good reasons. But whatever decision is made it could easily go very bad. 20-20 we'll rake the administration over the coals for a "bad" decision.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 11, 2019 9:29:14 GMT -6
Athletics has no money for buyouts or anything else.
Did you just get here?
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Post by david75bsu on Nov 11, 2019 9:38:15 GMT -6
I don't think dropping down a division is good idea. I'd either stay-put or cancel football completely. It'll be a lot easier finding a new conference without football. I agree. We will get rid of football someday. The question is, will we do it proactively, or will we be forced to do it? Sadly, I think we all know the answer. I don’t see us getting rid of football, they are in the process of building an indoor facility.
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 11, 2019 10:06:00 GMT -6
So, I'm hearing that we need to rise to the top of the MAC by out-spending the rest of the MAC? Is that you all's idea? Honestly, it has to be said that you guys are idiots. We already lose $10 million a year on football...and that's not enough? Basketball is not inherently as totally hopeless as football here, but with the caliber of administrators BSU has had for the last 20 years it's almost as hopeless. The same stale ideas and incompetent people would only waste any additional money they might be given to spend.
If we had a competent, innovative administration, we would actually need LESS money to try some new things that might actually work.
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 11, 2019 10:24:46 GMT -6
The MAC administrators are a pathetic, contemptable group. They continue to oversee and countenance this enormous yearly money drain from their schools. Each is too scared to do anything about it because the others are too scared to do anything about it.
Actually, I'm probably giving most of them too much credit in assuming they WANT to do anything about it. They have their hands deep into the pockets of the students and taxpayers and probably quite enjoy spending that money.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2019 10:40:29 GMT -6
General, as much as I agree that highly creative and risky decision making could turn out well, conservative higher administration, BOT, and state officials are all risk adverse.
The big problem is the case where the decision goes wrong. Which could happen even if the right decision. A career killer for the AD, big trouble for higher ups, with ultimately the politicians upset and state funding jeapordised.
Ironically JAG took virtually no flack for her top down mismanagement of athletics. Ultimately it was mostly penny pinching based...and yet longer term, budget killing. Nobody in power much cared about athletic results.
Spending money when needed was not considered. And you have to wonder if we had and it led to success if anybody in the legislature would care. They do with IU and to lesser extent at PU.
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Post by sweep on Nov 11, 2019 10:44:45 GMT -6
I agree. We will get rid of football someday. The question is, will we do it proactively, or will we be forced to do it? Sadly, I think we all know the answer. I don’t see us getting rid of football, they are in the process of building an indoor facility. Sorry but that is exactly the type of lunacy a state University is capable of.
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Post by cardfan on Nov 11, 2019 11:00:27 GMT -6
General, as much as I agree that highly creative and risky decision making could turn out well, conservative higher administration, BOT, and state officials are all risk adverse. The big problem is the case where the decision goes wrong. Which could happen even if the right decision. A career killer for the AD, big trouble for higher ups, with ultimately the politicians upset and state funding jeapordised. Ironically JAG took virtually no flack for her top down mismanagement of athletics. Ultimately it was mostly penny pinching based...and yet longer term, budget killing. Nobody in power much cared about athletic results. Spending money when needed was not considered. And you have to wonder if we had and it led to success if anybody in the legislature would care. They do with IU and to lesser extent at PU. The JAGoff was very apparent in her butchering things with Brady Hoke. He wanted his assistants to get better salaries, she said no, and that was that. Maybe he would have left anyway but she certainly helped push him away. And then how she handles basketball. Oy. Word was brad brownell was going to be named HC, next thing you know he’s left bsu without the contract and headed to Wright St, and she gets Ronnie. Ugh. Oh how different would things have been If she’d opened the checkbook a little and gotten out of the way.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 11, 2019 11:08:36 GMT -6
General, as much as I agree that highly creative and risky decision making could turn out well, conservative higher administration, BOT, and state officials are all risk adverse. The big problem is the case where the decision goes wrong. Which could happen even if the right decision. A career killer for the AD, big trouble for higher ups, with ultimately the politicians upset and state funding jeapordised. Ironically JAG took virtually no flack for her top down mismanagement of athletics. Ultimately it was mostly penny pinching based...and yet longer term, budget killing. Nobody in power much cared about athletic results. Spending money when needed was not considered. And you have to wonder if we had and it led to success if anybody in the legislature would care. They do with IU and to lesser extent at PU. The JAGoff was very apparent in her butchering things with Brady Hoke. He wanted his assistants to get better salaries, she said no, and that was that. Maybe he would have left anyway but she certainly helped push him away. And then how she handles basketball. Oy. Word was brad brownell was going to be named HC, next thing you know he’s left bsu without the contract and headed to Wright St, and she gets Ronnie. Ugh. Oh different would things have been If she’d opened the checkbook a little and gotten out of the way. Would not have mattered because we did not have any basketballs
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 11, 2019 11:11:15 GMT -6
you know one thing that has always bothered me. The amount we spent on those ronnie thompson autographed mini balls. There were still a few hundred floating around the wipb closets a few years ago. I can probably get you guys one if you want me to make some phone calls
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Post by sweep on Nov 11, 2019 11:30:57 GMT -6
General, as much as I agree that highly creative and risky decision making could turn out well, conservative higher administration, BOT, and state officials are all risk adverse. The big problem is the case where the decision goes wrong. Which could happen even if the right decision. A career killer for the AD, big trouble for higher ups, with ultimately the politicians upset and state funding jeapordised. Ironically JAG took virtually no flack for her top down mismanagement of athletics. Ultimately it was mostly penny pinching based...and yet longer term, budget killing. Nobody in power much cared about athletic results. Spending money when needed was not considered. And you have to wonder if we had and it led to success if anybody in the legislature would care. They do with IU and to lesser extent at PU. Oh different would things have been If she’d opened the checkbook a little and gotten out of the way. I am not sure that was a checkbook thing, I think she was trying to make an impression with some East Coast chin-pullers. Sort of the same thing she did with her Green Energy boondoggle. I always thought an interesting study would be to calculate just how much tax payer money JAG spent in a failed attempt to create an image and pump-up her resume.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2019 11:49:28 GMT -6
Both of you have good points.
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