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Post by cardfan on Mar 24, 2016 9:18:39 GMT -6
I think we all kicked around academics issues back when it was announced Teague would redshirt. The word was he wouldn't even qualify out of HS so not being ready to be a college student is no surprise. But again, knowing his offensive game was limited in HS and seeing him struggle to hit shots in practice it's not a major leap to know he needs some work. I agree, but every big man (minus 1) coming into the MAC needs work before they make significant impact. I would guess that after 17 losses in a row, they would have preferred that he get his work in the rotation though. I trust you in what you saw at practice, but there is evidence also that he played well in practice. According to TSP on 2/27: Ball State's defense, which had worked in several combinations of five, couldn't stop him or Tahjai Teague or Bik Gill. You do realize that sentence included "or Bik Gil," right? I"m guessing the defense just blew chunks in general that day. But I get your point and agree. Consistency is a bugaboo of the entire team, Teague included. Read more: overthepylon.boards.net/thread/543/columbia-7?page=15#ixzz43plVsZkR
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Post by reevo on Mar 24, 2016 10:03:08 GMT -6
Pat Boylan after listening to the Sterling radio show: Whitford notes an amazing stat. If Mallers makes the All-Star team, BSU will have 5 IN All-Stars on the roster. 5 on the roster now, and 2 from a decade in '04-'13. That's not impact? Which of Sellers, Kiapway, Tyler, and/or Moses doesn't have potential to be all MAC? If you look on the MAC stats page (http://www.mac-sports.com/custompages/stats/2016MBB/CONFLDRS.HTM#conf.wki), you will find one freshman big man on the list for scoring and rebounding and one guard for scoring only. That big man would probably have been off limits for BSU due to legal troubles, say what you will. Probably true for all teams, that if their seasons were extended, more big men would have begun producing more. Moses, with the last however many games, would now be on this list. Teague was not redshirted for skills this year. There is not an insider on this board, so we all speculate. From watching college basketball for however many years, 4 star recruits who don't sign with larger programs and sit their first year at a mid major do so because of school readiness. I'm sure they were buying time and that it was not their intention to begin with. [ First off, I am not one of those guys who go ga ga over getting an Indiana All Star. To be bluntly honest, the Indiana All Star game is a shell of its former self. There are good players that are not All Stars and there are All Stars that are NOT great players. I understand what Whitford is trying to do by establishing a foot print in this state but ultimately, recruiting is about getting better recruits then your competition, regardless of where they come from. The one thing I believe we are lacking is inside toughness. The mid major programs who are consistent winners are those who have that junk yard dog mentality. We had it with our better teams. I am beginning to like Moses upside but man he has got to get tougher and I am not sure that is in his DNA. We were successful finding quality physical big men in the past and Whitford needs to prove to me he can get that upper echelon MAC big guy during this recruiting cycle.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 10:05:56 GMT -6
Overall: Unfortunately and despite my cherished recruiting hopes for Whitford, we are still really at Buckley/Taylor square one. Whitford HAS to do what is difficult for MAC coaches and recruit a championship quality frontline. Until he does this, he may be good enough to hang on to the job for several years and maintain a cadre of apologists, but he will never win the MAC or go to the tourney. Some of us here well realize this, some vaguely realize it but dance around it a lot, and some remain in complete denial.
So, I ask again: what big men are we going to sign? A lot in your post that I can agree with. But this is hardly square one. And the comparison to Taylor is dead wrong, comparison to Buckley not that close. EXCEPT neither really brought in a great talent on their own, after being on the job. But being there longer than Whitford, I have to add. Taylor was never at this point. He never really had the quality of players where adding one big man would mean much. Never coached as well. Buckley started out ahead of the game with some talent and he not only did not seal the deal on any big time talent, but didn't do everything he could with what he had, except when he had a lot to start with. So, I don't really see Whitford as remotely like either coach. He has recruited good players, even if you tend to think they are the supporting cast for big man Savior. His system is better, his player development is better. With some talent this year he has done some good work adjusting during the game, and most important these guys do not phone in the games, they play hard, they are good players, and they get better as they are coached. Not sure we saw much of that with Buck or Taylor. You may be correct to say that we are one player away, but this group this year will be around for two years and even without a great big man they can win the MAC. They do need a big man probably, but I would not rule out their winning with the players on this roster right now.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 10:23:32 GMT -6
First off, I am not one of those guys who go ga ga over getting an Indiana All Star. To be bluntly honest, the Indiana All Star game is a shell of its former self. There are good players that are not All Stars and there are All Stars that are NOT great players. I understand what Whitford is trying to do by establishing a foot print in this state but ultimately, recruiting is about getting better recruits then your competition, regardless of where they come from. The one thing I believe we are lacking is inside toughness. The mid major programs who are consistent winners are those who have that junk yard dog mentality. We had it with our better teams. I am beginning to like Moses upside but man he has got to get tougher and I am not sure that is in his DNA. We were successful finding quality physical big men in the past and Whitford needs to prove to me he can get that upper echelon MAC big guy during this recruiting cycle. That's why I think adding even a "mediocre" big man who is both physically strong and plays hard would be huge. Doesn't necessarily have to be a starter, doesn't have to be a scorer. We may be able to get away with a finesse game most of the time, and I do believe that Whitford can have a good team playing that way. But sometimes you need strong. If we add a guy who can fill the bill when finesse isn't working and who can bang away with our guys in practice every day, play some solid minutes in reserve, we are a lot different team. Just enough smash mouth to get it done.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 10:55:18 GMT -6
"4 star recruits who don't sign with larger programs and sit their first year at a mid major do so because of school readiness."
Yeah but two star guys who are massively overrated by ESPN's horrible recruiting website redshirt for a myriad of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 11:00:34 GMT -6
"Taylor was never at this point. He never really had the quality of players where adding"
Odd comment considering whom BSU's best players have been the last two years.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 11:05:41 GMT -6
First off, I am not one of those guys who go ga ga over getting an Indiana All Star. To be bluntly honest, the Indiana All Star game is a shell of its former self. There are good players that are not All Stars and there are All Stars that are NOT great players. I understand what Whitford is trying to do by establishing a foot print in this state but ultimately, recruiting is about getting better recruits then your competition, regardless of where they come from. The one thing I believe we are lacking is inside toughness. The mid major programs who are consistent winners are those who have that junk yard dog mentality. We had it with our better teams. I am beginning to like Moses upside but man he has got to get tougher and I am not sure that is in his DNA. We were successful finding quality physical big men in the past and Whitford needs to prove to me he can get that upper echelon MAC big guy during this recruiting cycle. That's why I think adding even a "mediocre" big man who is both physically strong and plays hard would be huge. Doesn't necessarily have to be a starter, doesn't have to be a scorer. We may be able to get away with a finesse game most of the time, and I do believe that Whitford can have a good team playing that way. But sometimes you need strong. If we add a guy who can fill the bill when finesse isn't working and who can bang away with our guys in practice every day, play some solid minutes in reserve, we are a lot different team. Just enough smash mouth to get it done. Yeah with our fluid, highly skilled offense the finesse game is perfect. God Lord we struggle to get to sixty points a lot of times. The last thing BSU should try and do is play finesse basketball.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 24, 2016 11:05:48 GMT -6
"Taylor was never at this point. He never really had the quality of players where adding" Odd comment considering whom BSU's best players have been the last two years. oops.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 11:06:13 GMT -6
Totally agree on the Teague comments. I haven't seen any practices so I really don't know how he competes when on the court, but just watching him warming up for the last home game it was like he was struggling from right in front of the rim to get a bank shot to go in. And, I agree too, so many people think he is going to be a difference maker next hear and I'm just wondering if he's going to be much of a help. Disagree with the Buckley/Taylor comparison. We are much better, with better players, than what we were in those eras, but we are falling short with big men and PG. Really like Moses, so not knocking him, but we need more and they need to be kids that can contribute, not be projects. Even more players like House and Calhoun that work their butts off, most of the time, would be diamonds at this point. I still think we all forget sometimes though just how DISRESPECTED this program was when Whit took over. Part of the problem is still likely to be some coaches and players not haven't seen enough to feel comfortable coming here. Having seen practice, you can see the raw ability and athleticism Teague has, but, the key word is RAW. He's no where near ready to make a big contribution. There are some on here who think he's gonna make all the difference, but I would caution against thinking that. This summer will be huge for him. He still has to get stronger, and he's got a long way to go to develop an offensive game. He could help next year in terms of making some athletic plays that our current players just can't pull off, but that would be situational versus helping over an entire game. He can certainly run the floor and could do some things in the open court, but again, that wouldn't occur over an entire game, just in spots. Someday he may well be a dominant player in the MAC, but that will later vs. sooner. He's honestly much more of a project than hoped. How fast he gets there is pretty unpredictable. He's a funny kind of project, not the uncoordinated player who is awkward and lacks skills. Like you say his talent is there, but it's raw and the HS and AAU game is so different he was a star there and here has to do things like play team defense and know what the other players are doing on offense and what the coach wants in a good shot, these alien concepts are slow to master. Physically, I think the year has to help and the off season even should help his growth and strength all catch up. Things can really click in an off season and so far Whitford has made that happen for a couple of key players. I am a little more optimistic than you he could be pretty good next year.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 11:15:06 GMT -6
"Taylor was never at this point. He never really had the quality of players where adding" Odd comment considering whom BSU's best players have been the last two years. Not at all. Bo and Franko were decent recruits, but adding them did not have much impact. They were not the "key player" he needed. And, if they were a supporting cast, he didn't do enough to get them into that role. Taylor did not have at any point a team like this with a good core group already able to play and just add a good player and they are a contender. Taylor had one really good recruit in Jones. Early on he brought in two players in Jones and Randy who might have been enough to build on. They never got a lot better. MAYBE, Jones could have been a centerpiece of a good team. But that supporting cast and the system was not even close to what we have. We have 6 or 7 players as good as Randy on this team. Jones never in any year improved as much as Moses has. I see very little similarity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 11:20:36 GMT -6
"Taylor was never at this point. He never really had the quality of players where adding" Odd comment considering whom BSU's best players have been the last two years. Not at all. Bo and Franko were decent recruits, but adding them did not have much impact. They were not the "key player" he needed. And, if they were a supporting cast, he didn't do enough to get them into that role. Taylor did not have at any point a team like this with a good core group already able to play and just add a good player and they are a contender. Taylor had one really good recruit in Jones. Early on he brought in two players in Jones and Randy who might have been enough to build on. They never got a lot better. MAYBE, Jones could have been a centerpiece of a good team. But that supporting cast and the system was not even close to what we have. We have 6 or 7 players as good as Randy on this team. Jones never in any year improved as much as Moses has. I see very little similarity. Yeah you are right I am forgetting those key "high impact" recruits Whit is signing all over the place. Thanks as always for adding some humor to my day.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 11:25:56 GMT -6
Yeah with our fluid, highly skilled offense the finesse game is perfect. God Lord we struggle to get to sixty points a lot of times. The last thing BSU should try and do is play finesse basketball. I am sorry, but that's how we have to play. We struggled when athletic teams could cover us up outside, and slow us down. When that happens we did start to find an answer by driving to the basket and using the space in the lane to get inside when they overplayed us outside the arc. We showed that some in the CIT. Our inside players are finesse players, not power inside players. We don't have bruisers and I don't think we are set up that way. We play very hard on defense, and are actually pretty good inside on defense, but we do not play power basketball. We rely on shooting and passing. We will be a good team offensively next year, but not a power team. My point made in several posts is that we need more to go to the basket hard and on defense to have more strength. But, basically, we will not be a team like Majerus produced with bruising players who beat the other team up. We will be much more like teams at Arizona when Whitford was there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 11:28:34 GMT -6
Yeah with our fluid, highly skilled offense the finesse game is perfect. God Lord we struggle to get to sixty points a lot of times. The last thing BSU should try and do is play finesse basketball. I am sorry, but that's how we have to play. We struggled when athletic teams could cover us up outside, and slow us down. When that happens we did start to find an answer by driving to the basket and using the space in the lane to get inside when they overplayed us outside the arc. We showed that some in the CIT. Our inside players are finesse players, not power inside players. We don't have bruisers and I don't think we are set up that way. We play very hard on defense, and are actually pretty good inside on defense, but we do not play power basketball. We rely on shooting and passing. We will be a good team offensively next year, but not a power team. My point made in several posts is that we need more to go to the basket hard and on defense to have more strength. But, basically, we will not be a team like Majerus produced with bruising players who beat the other team up. We will be much more like teams at Arizona when Whitford was there. Yeah we should try finessing teams with more skill and talent. That makes a hell of lot of sense. Sheesh...................You are just clueless.................
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 24, 2016 11:34:47 GMT -6
Yeah you are right I am forgetting those key "high impact" recruits Whit is signing all over the place. Thanks as always for adding some humor to my day. Well, with 6 to 8 very good players we can win without a "high impact" player. Sure that would be great, to get a star, but you will notice I said we needed a key player, not that we need a star. That "high impact" star player is something that if we get it this year or next, we will be in VERY good shape to win the MAC. With only a little more, we will be in the title mix. BTW, which MAC teams are signing "high impact" star recruits? Your hero Taylor maybe had the closest thing to that we have had recently, in Jones. But he didn't have depth, system, and flat out not as many good players as we will have next year.
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Post by rusty on Mar 24, 2016 12:29:42 GMT -6
After nearly a decade of losing seasons to see this go from 7-23 to 21-14 is a great turn around. Enjoy it and be hopeful we build on this to bring back the program to compete every year for the MAC title. There is a lot to be excited about.
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