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Post by cardfan on Mar 25, 2016 11:50:08 GMT -6
Despite coming off an NCAA bid season the administration did not support Ray because too many players were getting in trouble or having academic issues. So, he was given a low ball salary offer and he left. Buckley was brought in both with an eye on continuity (the players wanted him) and to "clean up" the program, which he did. However, like I said, around that same time admissions standards were changed and Tim had his hands tired in terms of who he could recruit. Very Obviously when JoAnn hired Ronny those standards were relaxed, if you remember his roster.....
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 25, 2016 12:18:37 GMT -6
Wrong.
It's completely wrong to credit Ray's success to Bonzi.
Ray's most impressive team was after Bonzi left, and probably Ray's most impressive coaching feat overall was the incredibly full cabinet he left Buckley. Two NBA players PLUS the MAC's all time leading shot blocker PLUS Pete Jackson PLUS a flock of other very serviceable players. Ray had gone into recruiting hyperdrive just before he left.
By the way, Ray's failure to win a 2nd championship with Bonzi, during his last 3 years here, was primarily due to Ray's inability to recruit a strong frontline presence to supplement Bonzi. It's almost like....wow, I don't know....it's almost like we could learn something from that.
Bonzi being there both made him successful and helped recruiting. A big part of his success. Who could not like Ray getting his chance here? He kept the ball rolling on great run. Had some negatives though, probably too nice a guy with players...
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Post by reevo on Mar 25, 2016 12:50:05 GMT -6
Despite coming off an NCAA bid season the administration did not support Ray because too many players were getting in trouble or having academic issues. So, he was given a low ball salary offer and he left. Buckley was brought in both with an eye on continuity (the players wanted him) and to "clean up" the program, which he did. However, like I said, around that same time admissions standards were changed and Tim had his hands tired in terms of who he could recruit. Very Obviously when JoAnn hired Ronny those standards were relaxed, if you remember his roster..... So very true. I remember having a conversation with Tim and he felt he was railroaded by the administration. Dewayne Wade was going to be a Cardinal but he was not accepted by the university even though he was at Marquette. I can tell you that Buckley wanted out but basically was stuck in a no win situation which made him bitter and an ass to his players. Really quite sad though he had no one to blame but himself for the 2 great teams he had and screwed up.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 25, 2016 12:51:13 GMT -6
Correction: The worst decision, of any kind, ever made in the history of mankind.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 25, 2016 12:58:43 GMT -6
Despite coming off an NCAA bid season the administration did not support Ray because too many players were getting in trouble or having academic issues. So, he was given a low ball salary offer and he left. Buckley was brought in both with an eye on continuity (the players wanted him) and to "clean up" the program, which he did. However, like I said, around that same time admissions standards were changed and Tim had his hands tired in terms of who he could recruit. Very Obviously when JoAnn hired Ronny those standards were relaxed, if you remember his roster..... So very true. I remember having a conversation with Tim and he felt he was railroaded by the administration. Dewayne Wade was going to be a Cardinal but he was not accepted by the university even though he was at Marquette. I can tell you that Buckley wanted out but basically was stuck in a no win situation which made him bitter and an ass to his players. Really quite sad though he had no one to blame but himself for the 2 great teams he had and screwed up. Wade was one. We were all over him. But Tim was told no. We were in line to get Stanley Burrell, Courtney Lee, Justin Cage. Tim was told no. So you can see why he was bitter. But yes, he did screw up two monster teams, the first two he had that were loaded with Ray's recruits. Tim learned to burn out teams from Tom Crean. Crean was heavily criticized for burning out his IU teams, until this year, when he relaxed and quit running kids into the ground. Tim had the same problem. Tim was a great guy, but VERY intense on the court. Very. Can you guys imagine Dwayne Wade in a BSU uniform. And the other guys I named?
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Post by reevo on Mar 25, 2016 13:13:33 GMT -6
So very true. I remember having a conversation with Tim and he felt he was railroaded by the administration. Dewayne Wade was going to be a Cardinal but he was not accepted by the university even though he was at Marquette. I can tell you that Buckley wanted out but basically was stuck in a no win situation which made him bitter and an ass to his players. Really quite sad though he had no one to blame but himself for the 2 great teams he had and screwed up. Wade was one. We were all over him. But Tim was told no. We were in line to get Stanley Burrell, Courtney Lee, Justin Cage. Tim was told no. So you can see why he was bitter. But yes, he did screw up two monster teams, the first two he had that were loaded with Ray's recruits. Tim learned to burn out teams from Tom Crean. Crean was heavily criticized for burning out his IU teams, until this year, when he relaxed and quit running kids into the ground. Tim had the same problem. Tim was a great guy, but VERY intense on the court. Very. Can you guys imagine Dwayne Wade in a BSU uniform. And the other guys I named? And for the folks out there that believe that we can't recruit top notch talent; think again. It can be done by the right person. As for Buckley, I really liked the guy and he new his stuff. Some guys are best suited as Assistant coaches and I believe Tim is one of those guys. Not a bad gig (Buckley makes over $300,000) at IU.
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Post by bsu0 on Mar 25, 2016 13:20:47 GMT -6
I just viewed a segment on Stack.com and Wade stated that he was not recruited heavily except for Depaul. Il. ST., and Marquette because of his ACT scores.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 25, 2016 13:21:06 GMT -6
Totally agree. Tim is a fantastic assistant coach but being a head coach ate him alive.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 25, 2016 13:22:17 GMT -6
I just viewed a segment on Stack.com and Wade stated that he was not recruited heavily except for Depaul. Il. ST., and Marquette because of his ACT scores. We were right there with him.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 25, 2016 14:55:49 GMT -6
Despite coming off an NCAA bid season the administration did not support Ray because too many players were getting in trouble or having academic issues. So, he was given a low ball salary offer and he left. Buckley was brought in both with an eye on continuity (the players wanted him) and to "clean up" the program, which he did. However, like I said, around that same time admissions standards were changed and Tim had his hands tired in terms of who he could recruit. Very Obviously when JoAnn hired Ronny those standards were relaxed, if you remember his roster..... Yes and just another reason to call that hire bad, this time on academic principle. Ray was an extremely responsible student, had great work ethic and character, and certainly did not have as a goal to create an academic problem or pull anything. However, it seems he thought he should treat players like adults, trust them, and that they would be responsible. Unfortunately... I think most of us thought he could go on to a higher level school and succeed. Of course that didn't really happen either. Had he avoided trouble here, and learned a few things in the process he might have been here a while, maybe a long time, and been highly successful. I think of Miami's coach who was also a great guy and solid coach.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 25, 2016 15:29:15 GMT -6
And for the folks out there that believe that we can't recruit top notch talent; think again. It can be done by the right person. As for Buckley, I really liked the guy and he new his stuff. Some guys are best suited as Assistant coaches and I believe Tim is one of those guys. Not a bad gig (Buckley makes over $300,000) at IU. Completely right about Buckley as a very good assistant. Not sure in today's game we can recruit like we could then. Maybe, but it is very hard. Fewer kids with NBA talent get missed by big schools, withe the media and AAU exposure, plus there are more schools in the mid majors competing for good talent. One and done actually makes it worse, since the big boys don't tie up a roster spot for 4 years anymore. So the big schools can now actually go after more kids who might come to a mid major. Academic gambles hardly hurt you now, and the rules on APR hurt a BSU more. When our failures happen, they aren't going on to the NBA and their school only losing anything except for maybe one year, if the kid flunked out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 15:37:14 GMT -6
And for the folks out there that believe that we can't recruit top notch talent; think again. It can be done by the right person. As for Buckley, I really liked the guy and he new his stuff. Some guys are best suited as Assistant coaches and I believe Tim is one of those guys. Not a bad gig (Buckley makes over $300,000) at IU. Completely right about Buckley as a very good assistant. Not sure in today's game we can recruit like we could then. Maybe, but it is very hard. Fewer kids with NBA talent get missed by big schools, withe the media and AAU exposure, plus there are more schools in the mid majors competing for good talent. One and done actually makes it worse, since the big boys don't tie up a roster spot for 4 years anymore. So the big schools can now actually go after more kids who might come to a mid major. Academic gambles hardly hurt you now, and the rules on APR hurt a BSU more. When our failures happen, they aren't going on to the NBA and their school only losing anything except for maybe one year, if the kid flunked out. I don't always agree with 00hmh but, when I do, it's always after a large glass of Good Friday Cabernet.....
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Post by universityjim on Mar 25, 2016 16:32:21 GMT -6
Despite coming off an NCAA bid season the administration did not support Ray because too many players were getting in trouble or having academic issues. So, he was given a low ball salary offer and he left. Buckley was brought in both with an eye on continuity (the players wanted him) and to "clean up" the program, which he did. However, like I said, around that same time admissions standards were changed and Tim had his hands tired in terms of who he could recruit. Very Obviously when JoAnn hired Ronny those standards were relaxed, if you remember his roster..... Ray didn't leave because the salary was too low or because Houston's offer was that great. Ray left because he wanted a long term extended contract and the WAD would only offer 1 year contract extensions at the time after being burned by some large contract by-outs. This is not speculation. Coaches with young children value stability as much as big numbers. You are right that the administration was not fond of Ray's players getting in trouble and it probably led to fear that they would need to fire him at some point. It was another short lived but disastrous policy that did a lot of harm here.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 25, 2016 16:35:44 GMT -6
I knew it was related to rays contract. I had been told he wasn't happy with the $ figure too but the extension part of definitely makes more sense. To not extend him at that time was ridiculous.
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Post by universityjim on Mar 25, 2016 17:00:03 GMT -6
Can you imagine what Steve Payne and Bonzi Wells would do to the MAC now?
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