|
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 25, 2018 15:50:32 GMT -6
Freshmen should not be a do or die issue. Yeah Rob and Cardfan. Why are you making Freshmen a do or die issue by suggesting every once in a while one should contribute? Gosh you guys...
|
|
|
Post by cardfan on Jan 25, 2018 15:53:28 GMT -6
I didn't say the recruiting sucks, I said I'm still waiting for it to reach the level of the reputation coming in. Tyler and Kiapway haven't gotten better. Period. They've been inconsitent from the start. (and suspended, in Tyler's case) Kiapway performance level has dropped. To the point he's fallen out of the starting lineup and his minutes are diminshing. Tyler has made one or two splashes and done nothing else. For 4 years. Sellers flatlined until this year. Very good to see him doing well this year. Moses is about the same as last year, with less effectiveness on defense. (and blocks are down) Teague? Still all over the place. Doesn't mean he won't become really good, just that he's not made any kind of leap this year. Persons, at least in terms of stats, is generally down from last years numbers in most areas. Now Mallers, he's a poster boy for making a leap. There's a good example of a player showing development. If the rest of the team had shown a similar uptick in performance we'd be really good. But clearly that hasn't happened. We're struggling. We were expected to finish at least 2nd in the West. I suppose we still can if we turn it around, but to this point the team is a disappointment. Generally the fingers get pointed at the coach when a team is a disappointment.
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 25, 2018 16:02:43 GMT -6
Freshmen should not be a do or die issue. Yeah Rob and Cardfan. Why are you making Freshmen a do or die issue by suggesting every once in a while one should contribute? Gosh you guys... I'm a dreamer
|
|
|
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 25, 2018 16:04:39 GMT -6
Yeah Rob and Cardfan. Why are you making Freshmen a do or die issue by suggesting every once in a while one should contribute? Gosh you guys... I'm a dreamer But you're not the only one.
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 25, 2018 16:23:03 GMT -6
I mean really after today my dreams are crushed. Ive learned that to due to a variety of issues its just impossible to over recruit someone already on the roster. To many intangibles just impossible for Ball State or the MAC in general to ever have a freshman who might come in and take someones spot.. Just cant happen,ever,impossible a fricking pipe dream
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Jan 25, 2018 16:27:20 GMT -6
Freshmen should not be a do or die issue. Yeah Rob and Cardfan. Why are you making Freshmen a do or die issue by suggesting every once in a while one should contribute? Gosh you guys... just saying we have had some contributors. And. That that unless the freshman fills a big need and isn't competing with talented upperclassman players, it requires a very special player. Doesn't happen all that often that they can, and not sure how often counts as "once in a while" under those circumstance.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Jan 25, 2018 16:30:47 GMT -6
I mean really after today my dreams are crushed. Ive learned that to due to a variety of issues its just impossible to over recruit someone already on the roster. To many intangibles just impossible for Ball State or the MAC in general to ever have a freshman who might come in and take someones spot.. Just cant happen,ever,impossible a fricking pipe dream See just above. Jackson is quite correct we should not speak in absolutes, like impossible or never or ever.
|
|
|
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 25, 2018 16:32:58 GMT -6
I mean really after today my dreams are crushed. Ive learned that to due to a variety of issues its just impossible to over recruit someone already on the roster. To many intangibles just impossible for Ball State or the MAC in general to ever have a freshman who might come in and take someones spot.. Just cant happen,ever,impossible a fricking pipe dream See just above. Jackson is quite correct we should not speak in absolutes, like impossible or never or ever. I wonder when I said that. Seriously, if anyone can remind me when I said that my locating it and quoting it I'd be really interested.
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 25, 2018 16:55:58 GMT -6
Yeah Rob and Cardfan. Why are you making Freshmen a do or die issue by suggesting every once in a while one should contribute? Gosh you guys... just saying we have had some contributors. And. That that unless the freshman fills a big need and isn't competing with talented upperclassman players, it requires a very special player. Doesn't happen all that often that they can, and not sure how often counts as "once in a while" under those circumstance. I cant find anywhere where anyone said we have not had contributors. Having contributors is expected or well should be expected. It just pains me to actually have someone argue that wanting or expecting a coach to be able to bring in a kid who can make a real impact and not regress over his time here is damn near impossible
|
|
|
Post by reevo on Jan 25, 2018 17:25:11 GMT -6
Lets put it this way, Whitford, who we were told is a great recruiter has yet to recruit a freshman difference maker. Majerus/Hunsaker had Thompson and Payne, though they had to sit because of prop 48 were difference makers. McCallum had Bonzi, T. Smith that were major difference makers and even Duane Clemons was very good as a freshman as he averaged 10 pts a game and did great things over the course of his career. Difference makers contribute regardless of the talent around them. Whitford has recruited better (Freshman) compared to his predecessor but he still has a way to go. My point above is that we'd all like to see BSU grab the brass ring and get that star as a freshman. Good points, but let's qualify them a little. Whitford perhaps is not a "great recruiter" although he's good. Especially if you consider he came in with no coaching reputation and was working with a failed Program. Next years team looks like it will have more talent available on the court than the current team. This has been true about every year. None of those coaches you named started out in quite the hole he did. Some of those recruits were in the running for the MAC all time best recruits, this is not typical for very many MAC coaches, at BSU or not. All the players were you name did contribute early. Those coaches were good recruiters. Majerus had more connection and experience than we'll ever probably see in a new coach. What was probably more impressive than the home town recruit he got in Chandler was his transfer successes. Hunsaker became coach with BSU riding pretty high. Ray was a good recruiter, but let's face it, Bonzi was an unusual recruitment by a friend of the family from Muncie. Nobody denies our history, but, Whitford did not come with the benefit of much history. Lots of things are different in college recruiting, the MAC and BSU today. You continue to mention that none of the coaches had to start in a hole that Whitford inherited. I call Bull Shit!! Let's see; Majerus followed maybe the worst basketball coach in the history not named Ronny Thompson in Al Brown who had a career record of 68-75. Brown took over from a team that had quality players returning including Ray McCallum as a senior and they were 17-12 followed up with 8-19; 13-16; Dan Palombizio lead 21-10 and then dumpster fire 9-18. We hired a Milwaukee Bucks assistant and a not so successful former Marquette coach who is left with a horrific roster and he goes 15-15 and the next year, well, we all know what happened over the course of the next 4 years. Ray McCallum has to deal with NCAA sanctions and Steve Payne's suspension and goes 16-12 and builds a good program. Billy comes in a has to deal with the worst hire in BSU history and goes an understandable 6-24 after getting rid of a bunch of Thompson Trash than 14-17 and 500 seasons or better in 4 of his 6 years. Whitford quite frankly was not left with an awful roster. He ran off some pretty good players and has been nothing but mediocre after 5 years and has the worst record of all of the guys listed above. Quit making excuses for the guy. Talent has been better than Billy overall but not to the level of the Eastern Teams. He has not beaten Kent State. Buffalo and the other MAC East teams that are physical have owned us and it really has not gotten better. We lack the same issues this year as we did when he started. He has not been able to attract tough minded players other than Person's who can man up to the physical nature of the better East teams. I see nothing that indicates he is going to change the way he recruits which does not bode well in the long run. You can point to the 2 kids who transferred in (Hazen & Walton) but neither are going to man the post for us and guard the other team's best low post player. If Huggins was a top notch recruit he would be playing this year but they had to redshirt the kid because he is low hanging fruit or what I call a leftover to fill a roster spot. How you cannot see the better MAC teams go right after Trey inside blows me away. Teams see him and our inside game as a major weakness. It is on everyone's scouting report. We have to get better inside and he has not done it. After 5 years, there are no more excuses for what I see as a major program and philosophical fault. That is not going to change and excuses are not going to change the fact that after 5 years, we are smack in the middle of the MAC fighting like hell to receive a bye into the MAC tournament.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Jan 25, 2018 17:41:31 GMT -6
Mostly I think you think we can do as well today as we did with the perfect storm we harnessed starting with Majerus, I was there, I disagree.
But also I think that past success makes you see a glass half full, today, call it empty too often.
If you come offer to half empty we have something more to talk about.
If you look at this roster and focus only on weaknesses, I can agree with you quite a way. Not so far that I ignore how we win, not just worry about how we can lose.
Truth is we will win a lot of games. I plan to enjoy it, not hate lacking Steve Payne so much as you...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:44:23 GMT -6
But you're not the only one. Rob’s too young to get this reference
|
|
|
Post by realitycheck on Jan 25, 2018 17:55:03 GMT -6
Mostly I think you think we can do as well today as we did with the perfect storm we harnessed starting with Majerus, I was there, I disagree. But also I think that past success makes you see a glass half full, today, call it empty too often. If you come offer to half empty we have something more to talk about. If you look at this roster and focus only on weaknesses, I can agree with you quite a way. Not so far that I ignore how we win, not just worry about how we can lose. Truth is we will win a lot of games. I plan to enjoy it, not hate lacking Steve Payne so much as you... My Bullsh*t Meter just exploded. Now my shirt is ruined.
|
|
|
Post by reevo on Jan 25, 2018 17:59:25 GMT -6
Mostly I think you think we can do as well today as we did with the perfect storm we harnessed starting with Majerus, I was there, I disagree. But also I think that past success makes you see a glass half full, today, call it empty too often. If you come offer to half empty we have something more to talk about. If you look at this roster and focus only on weaknesses, I can agree with you quite a way. Not so far that I ignore how we win, not just worry about how we can lose. Truth is we will win a lot of games. I plan to enjoy it, not hate lacking Steve Payne so much as you... I am all about wins and can we compete against the best in the MAC. After 5 years, that answer is no. I don't call that half empty, I call that the truth!
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 25, 2018 18:27:33 GMT -6
But you're not the only one. Rob’s too young to get this reference that's the monkeys right
|
|