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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 11:27:11 GMT -6
Please tell me what Buffalo has that Ball State University does not. I am tired of excuses and too many being (including those in the Athletic Department) satisfied with mediocrity...... WE COULD DO THIS IF THE POWERS THAT BE WOULD WANT TO. I don't entirely agree, and don't get the part where you think the POWERS TO BE don't want to do it. Stop it. The first time I ever heard Jo Ann speak someone asked her about athletics. She spent 30 seconds on building winning programs and 10 minutes on the importance of gender equity. She didn't give a rat's ass.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 11:40:02 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Mar 16, 2018 11:40:02 GMT -6
Arizona did not play their best because Buffalo took away everything they wanted to do. That my friend is the definition of toughness. They took the game to them and never backed off. They attacked the rim and attacked the glass. Sure they hit shots but they did enough of everything else to win that game. Everybody wants to point to stats as the reason for winning and losing but sometimes it comes down to grit and fight. These are the traits you are looking for when you are recruiting. Arizona is and was soft. Toughness and skill will beat soft great skilled players most of the time. We have one right now on the roster and potentially two more with Walton and Hazen. We need a team of these guys to compete with Buffalo. There is a huge gap between Buffalo's roster and ours talent wise and toughness wise. Kid, not to boast but I believe I said way back before the season began that Buffalo was the team to beat in the MAC. We have a long way to go to get to their level!! I'd like to give all the credit to Buffalo, but I think Miller and his players laid an egg here. And some of it is live by the 3 die by the 3. But this team has inside game, and outside game. I do agree Buffalo made the game tough, but even so it was a good game at half. As tough as Buffalo was and as much credit as they deserve for staying with it, where the hell was Arizona second half? They played a stretch of 6-8 minutes very badly. And then after they were down, even after that, they had the better team, could have gotten back in the game. They failed to kick into a high gear they had had all year when needed. Not doing what they know works is something else. Not good... I'd agree the toughness factor gave Buffalo that chance and also that it was lack of toughness or at least discipline on the part of Arizona. Arizona did not even use the skills they had . All year they got to the line, last night against a team that they could force to foul them, nothing. Had the just gone to the basket when they were being covered up outside they'd be in the game. Had their big guys played with mediocre toughness they would have been good enough to have an edge. Buffalo played well, it would take the Arizona A/B+ game to win, but Arizona gave a D effort, can improve on that, doesn't take a lot of toughness. Smart and skilled and disciplined are factors. Against an inspired Buffalo they maybe don't win without toughness, too. But shooting outside when it is not a good shot, isn't lack of toughness, it is also just not smart and not disciplined, they did not stick to what has worked for them all year.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 11:50:47 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Mar 16, 2018 11:50:47 GMT -6
I don't entirely agree, and don't get the part where you think the POWERS TO BE don't want to do it. Stop it. The first time I ever heard Jo Ann speak someone asked her athletics. She spent 30 seconds on building winning programs and 10 minutes on the importance of gender equity. She didn't give a rat's ass. JoAnn and her priority on athletics, I agree about. Some of those priorities were just reality, BSU had a lot of things needing to be done. You are not going to get everything you want. But forget priorities, we really screwed up in making decisions with her. If we want to blame her for something I'd say it is Ronnie Thompson. Bonehead hire that had nothing to do with any conflicting priority, well except for the here misguided priority for PR, and to get it on the cheap. It must have looked like a slick media play to her?
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Post by reevo on Mar 16, 2018 11:58:26 GMT -6
Arizona did not play their best because Buffalo took away everything they wanted to do. That my friend is the definition of toughness. They took the game to them and never backed off. They attacked the rim and attacked the glass. Sure they hit shots but they did enough of everything else to win that game. Everybody wants to point to stats as the reason for winning and losing but sometimes it comes down to grit and fight. These are the traits you are looking for when you are recruiting. Arizona is and was soft. Toughness and skill will beat soft great skilled players most of the time. We have one right now on the roster and potentially two more with Walton and Hazen. We need a team of these guys to compete with Buffalo. There is a huge gap between Buffalo's roster and ours talent wise and toughness wise. Kid, not to boast but I believe I said way back before the season began that Buffalo was the team to beat in the MAC. We have a long way to go to get to their level!! I'd like to give all the credit to Buffalo, but I think Miller and his players laid an egg here. And some of it is live by the 3 die by the 3. But this team has inside game, and outside game. I do agree Buffalo made the game tough, but even so it was a good game at half. As tough as Buffalo was and as much credit as they deserve for staying with it, where the hell was Arizona second half? They played a stretch of 6-8 minutes very badly. And then after they were down, even after that, they had the better team, could have gotten back in the game. They failed to kick into a high gear they had had all year when needed. Not doing what they know works is something else. Not good... I'd agree the toughness factor gave Buffalo that chance and also that it was lack of toughness or at least discipline on the part of Arizona. Arizona did not even use the skills they had . All year they got to the line, last night against a team that they could force to foul them, nothing. Had the just gone to the basket when they were being covered up outside they'd be in the game. Had their big guys played with mediocre toughness they would have been good enough to have an edge. Buffalo played well, it would take the Arizona A/B+ game to win, but Arizona gave a D effort, can improve on that, doesn't take a lot of toughness. Smart and skilled and disciplined are factors. Against an inspired Buffalo they maybe don't win without toughness, too. But shooting outside when it is not a good shot, isn't lack of toughness, it is also just not smart and not disciplined, they did not stick to what has worked for them all year. You are not getting it! Buffalo made Arizona very uncomfortable by getting into their grill. Arizona had a tough time getting by Buffalo's guards and were forced to take bad shots. You are correct, they did a horrible job of trying to get the ball inside but Buffalo made that extremely difficult by doubling inside and pushing these guys off of the blocks. Arizona runs very similar sets to us and they like to play their big guys at the free throw line instead of starting at the block. When you have a huge size advantage, you either run 4 out with a post on the block by himself or a double post splitting the wings. Arizona did neither because that is not their M.O. Arizona's guards were not nearly as quick as Buffalo's which allowed Buffalo to sag and recover. I must admit, I only watched Arizona play once and made my initial comments on their talent based on their roster and recruiting rankings. I will tell you if I would have spent more time watching them, I am not sure I would have made the comment that this was a horrible matchup for Buffalo. I clearly did not see in the one game I watched them how soft this group played. They got punched in the mouth and wanted no part of fighting back. Buffalo kicked their ass and loved every minute of it. One of these days you are going to have to admit that this style of play is not the way to go. Buffalo would beat us 9 of 10 times. They have better players, which by the way means they are recruiting better, they are tougher and more physical and that is not debatable and I believe they have a better coach. I like the debate but you are going to have to admit you are wrong about this. Unless Whitford changes his recruiting philosophy, we are not getting over the hump and beating the likes of Buffalo.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 12:28:54 GMT -6
Post by bsu0 on Mar 16, 2018 12:28:54 GMT -6
The ''Powers'' hired Buckley, Thompson, Taylor, Whit, Collins, ''the ankle taper'', Cunningham, the Carpet Bagger from ND that stayed for five minutes, the present AD that has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I guess he ''forgot'' one must show progress to get an extension... That's 0-9...not to mention football. No money for assistants...giving a head coach a competitive salary was like squeezing blood out of a turnip...they would rather dig holes under existing buildings on campus...I could go on forever
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 12:48:49 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Mar 16, 2018 12:48:49 GMT -6
The ''Powers'' hired Buckley, Thompson, Taylor, Whit, Collins, ''the ankle taper'', Cunningham, the Carpet Bagger from ND that stayed for five minutes, the present AD that has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I guess he ''forgot'' one must show progress to get and extension... That's 0-9...not to mention football. No money for assistants...giving a head coach a competitive salary was like squeezing blood out of a turnip...they would rather dig holes under existing buildings on campus...I could go on forever You almost are saying there is a vast conspiracy over many years that explains poor decisions. My point is not that all the hires were good hires. But, your theory that they decision makers just don't care to be successful and that it is somehow easy and without cost to be successful is what I am arguing. Bad decisions do not mean bad motive. When I have two explanations for something, and one is some complicated conspiracy and evil motive, and the other is bonehead error, I tend to pick bonehead error as the likely cause. In this case some of the errors were bonehead. Some we only see in 20-20 hindsight, were reasonable at the time, and some are error but not so great at all. There are pluses and minuses on a few there. I know about some of those decisions and they made sense. At least reasonable people can disagree. If you are saying we could have avoided some of these errors, or you want a higher success rate, I'll agree with you. Saying we can easily make a decision to be at the top of the MAC or "should" be where Buffalo sits after a big win I don't so easily agree.
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Post by bsu0 on Mar 16, 2018 13:33:17 GMT -6
I am suggesting a little more thought should go into the decisions that must be made would go a long way.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 13:39:28 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Mar 16, 2018 13:39:28 GMT -6
I'd agree the toughness factor gave Buffalo that chance and also that it was lack of toughness or at least discipline on the part of Arizona. Arizona did not even use the skills they had . All year they got to the line, last night against a team that they could force to foul them, nothing. Had the just gone to the basket when they were being covered up outside they'd be in the game. Had their big guys played with mediocre toughness they would have been good enough to have an edge. Buffalo played well, it would take the Arizona A/B+ game to win, but Arizona gave a D effort, can improve on that, doesn't take a lot of toughness. You are not getting it! Buffalo made Arizona very uncomfortable by getting into their grill. Arizona had a tough time getting by Buffalo's guards and were forced to take bad shots. You are correct, they did a horrible job of trying to get the ball inside but Buffalo made that extremely difficult by doubling inside and pushing these guys off of the blocks. Arizona runs very similar sets to us and they like to play their big guys at the free throw line instead of starting at the block. When you have a huge size advantage, you either run 4 out with a post on the block by himself or a double post splitting the wings. Arizona did neither because that is not their M.O. Arizona's guards were not nearly as quick as Buffalo's which allowed Buffalo to sag and recover....... Unless Whitford changes his recruiting philosophy, we are not getting over the hump and beating the likes of Buffalo. Arizona's MO would look a lot better if they had actually followed it. And if they had played overall with effort and intensity. You are surely right that a good defense tries to take away things you like to do and Buffalo did well at that, played well above their season long effort there. Still, Arizona did not execute very well. Where they needed to adjust, they did not respond to the challenge and play well, kept doing what was not working. That is not smart in either case, or disciplined. I have seen them play a couple of times, and they could look awesome when they were focused, and this game they just did not play well. I am at least as impressed with how Buffalo played on offense, as with the high effort on defense. Not many mistakes, hit shots, found the weaknesses and exploited the lax effort by Arizona. They didn't make a lot of mistakes and did shoot awfully well even considering Arizona lacked effort on defense. Credit to them for that. I grade Arizona at best a C- and Buffalo an A+ I'd like to see Arizona play well against Buffalo before I'd say the basic philosophy of play and recruiting philosophy that goes with it is quite as big a problem.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 16, 2018 14:42:07 GMT -6
Buffalo played an almost perfect game while Az slept walk and got out coached..
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 14:53:54 GMT -6
Post by comet on Mar 16, 2018 14:53:54 GMT -6
Buffalo played an almost perfect game while Az slept walk and got out coached..
"Slept walk". Now there's a new message board term !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by cardfan on Mar 16, 2018 15:42:51 GMT -6
Az got slept walk by Buffalo. I like it.
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Post by bsutrack on Mar 16, 2018 16:04:13 GMT -6
I can't believe how big, physical, athletic and tough Buffalo is. Someone on this board keeps telling us it's just too hard to get those kinds of players when you're a mid-major. No, we just keep saying it's impossible for Whitford to recruit those type of players either because he doesn't think they are necessary for his style of play, or because he can't. Kent State certainly has one in Delarosa and he was a big part in why Kent State ended our season. Western Michigan certainly has a pair of them in Drake LaMont and Seth Dugan. Notice we lost both times this year to Western. So not too hard, just too hard for Whitford.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 16, 2018 18:48:06 GMT -6
No, no, no. Calhoun and Reevo and some others here just aren't getting it. It's not realistic to expect that a MAC school can recruit players of a level that can win the MAC championship. As 00 has patiently tried to explain to you while defending Taylor's and now Whitford's recruiting, there are just too many disadvantages now, such as blah blah blah and blah blah. What part of blah blah blah blah do you not understand?
Sure, it used to happen that MAC schools could recruit MAC championship players, but things have changed now. Have you paid no attention over the last 18 years? MAC schools are all like us - they never win the MAC championship anymore. The deck is completely stacked against them. Trying to explain this to you guys is very frustrating.
We should be very satisfied with Whitford (and Taylor before him) because they are doing as well as they can realistically be expected to do. And besides, their next seasons are always so very much stronger than their current seasons.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 19:22:22 GMT -6
Post by bsu0 on Mar 16, 2018 19:22:22 GMT -6
Az got slept walk by Buffalo. I like it. AZ got it's ass waxed by Buffalo.
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 20:55:38 GMT -6
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00hmh likes this
Post by thebsukid on Mar 16, 2018 20:55:38 GMT -6
I think Buffalo and their staff deserve a lot of credit!
Hard to beat Arizona!! Ask a lot of PAC 12 teams!
I like their guard play and inside play better than ours for sure!
We could argue about the bad recruiting of Tyler, Hollywood, and Walker by Whitford till the cows come home but I suspect at a mid major like Ball U many of us would have taken all or most of them.
To say playing short 3 did not hurt our depth the last several games would in my mind not be accurate!
The truth is though that this year’s team even with a few decent wins underachieved! And, even with the depth of the three above we may have won a few more games but we would not have likely beaten Buffalo!
Reevo and others are correct that we need a Perkins or Smart type player which would really help our inside play!
I do not give Whitford a top grade but after Billy and Thompson left the cupboard bare I’d give his recruiting a solid B and his bench coaching a C+. Maybe your grades are lower or higher but being an optimist I believe we’ll be better next year. We have all the major contributors back except Sellers! And, we add two pretty highly touted SEC transfers that will clearly help!
We will probably be the second fav next year behind Buffalo but could we breakthrough?
By the way, Buffalo may very well be a Sweet 16 team
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