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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 16, 2018 21:12:00 GMT -6
No doubt!! Whitford has proven himself to be the best next year coach in the MAC!
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Buffalo
Mar 16, 2018 22:31:32 GMT -6
Post by lmills72 on Mar 16, 2018 22:31:32 GMT -6
I wonder if Oats' success might cause a few MAC ADs to re-evaluate their job search techniques.
It seems in vogue now to go for the assistant from a big-time program, a la BSU.
However, had Oats not been an assistant at Buffalo when Hurley left — a job he'd had for just 2 years — there's no way in hell he would have even gotten a sniff for the job. Division III assistant, high school head coach (a good high school head coach, but high school nonetheless). Not a resume that would impress even a MAC AD.
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 9:19:54 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Mar 17, 2018 9:19:54 GMT -6
I wonder if Oats' success might cause a few MAC ADs to re-evaluate their job search techniques. It seems in vogue now to go for the assistant from a big-time program, a la BSU. However, had Oats not been an assistant at Buffalo when Hurley left — a job he'd had for just 2 years — there's no way in hell he would have even gotten a sniff for the job. Division III assistant, high school head coach (a good high school head coach, but high school nonetheless). Not a resume that would impress even a MAC AD. MAC ADs have been hiring assistants forever. It is almost always a cheap solution which is probably a big factor... It might on occasion be done because it actually makes sense as we did with Hunsaker, who was ready for a HC job. Less true for Ray, who was hired as players and a lot of other people were upset with firing Hunsaker. Could maybe count Buckley in this group of hired assistants (although he was a former assistant). Major colleges have done it. Mike Davis(shudder) at Indiana. Often it is an assistant who is a big time recruiter and that itself not only is a credential but may mean closer relationship with players. Sometimes it occurs after the coach is tagged interim where the departure is at an awkward time, which I seem to remember being Oates case. But, the usual reasons include familiarity with the system and environment to assure a smooth transition. That dovetails with the common situation where the assistant recruited many of the players and is favored by them generally. My recollection is that Oates had recruited the star at Buffalo and this was at least in part to make sure he didn't jump ship. This actually did not work out as Hurley took a player with him and the star ended up in hot water and had to be dismissed. I agree that we can continue to expect the MAC to do this. This may be more logical when the outgoing coach really was able to assemble a good staff, even it they didn't pay all that well. Majerus may be a good example. For all his being a good coach, he had a gem in Hunsaker who had a ton of responsibility and credit for BSU success. And, although budget is always tight, OTOH, if as in a few cases, the MAC school actually pays their outgoing coach a decent salary and especially where they sign them to longer contract, the "buyout" when a coach moves on may allow them to not worry so much about money. Groce came back to the MAC partly because he had ties, but also he didn't get a bad salary either, succeeding a well paid MAC coach. I hope we see that. True enough we may find assistants ready to move up. But look at Oates. They may have hit the jackpot in the cheap hire, but their best bet now is to realize they have a program that might sustain success and hire a coach at a high enough salary they can sustain it. Our own situation with Buckley may be the cautionary tale. We needed at that time or at least on the next hire to invest(We did not do that with Ray, the athletic leadership was a disaster then, but he brought in Bonzi and that worked out great. Without that, I am not so sure we'd look back with such fond memory) . We passed by coaches or couldn't attract them. Repeatedly. Good coaches could not be enticed into the pool or even were interested and we wouldn't match opportunities they had elsewhere. Our search for Whitford however you like the results put a little more money into the pot and was professionally done. But whether you like the results or not, he will leave the program at some point with a choice for us to make. The program is now repaired in terms of establishing the recruiting footprint in Indiana, we are NOT at the bottom of the MAC, and will likely have a core of decent players to be attractive to a decent coach. IF. If we pony up, add a bit to the budget currently spent. As is true for football spending a bit on assistants won't hurt in that!
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 15:31:01 GMT -6
Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 17, 2018 15:31:01 GMT -6
Kentucky may be a different beast
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 15:37:48 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ballman on Mar 17, 2018 15:37:48 GMT -6
i get the feeling Buffalo will home to Buffalo today. Half Kentuckys points are dunks and Buffalo needed to shoot threes and not doing it
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 15:39:59 GMT -6
Post by lmills72 on Mar 17, 2018 15:39:59 GMT -6
Sorry, guess I made my point poorly.
It wasn't to question whether ADs would look more to existing assistants already in house.
It was to question whether ADs would consider someone with very limited college coaching experience, but more extensive and successful high school experience. In 2 years as an assistant at Buffalo, Oats proved he had some recruiting chops, and that's certainly important. Maybe showed some organizational skills.
But, most of the other stuff he likely learned as a Div. III assistant and high school head coach. It doesn't seem to me Div. III assistants and high school head coaches are much on the hiring radar for Div. I jobs, but maybe they should be ... or at least maybe they shouldn't be totally dismissed from consideration.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 15:59:44 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2018 15:59:44 GMT -6
I wonder if Oats' success might cause a few MAC ADs to re-evaluate their job search techniques. It seems in vogue now to go for the assistant from a big-time program, a la BSU. However, had Oats not been an assistant at Buffalo when Hurley left — a job he'd had for just 2 years — there's no way in hell he would have even gotten a sniff for the job. Division III assistant, high school head coach (a good high school head coach, but high school nonetheless). Not a resume that would impress even a MAC AD. MAC ADs have been hiring assistants forever. It is almost always a cheap solution which is probably a big factor... It might on occasion be done because it actually makes sense as we did with Hunsaker, who was ready for a HC job. Less true for Ray, who was hired as players and a lot of other people were upset with firing Hunsaker. Could maybe count Buckley in this group of hired assistants (although he was a former assistant). Major colleges have done it. Mike Davis(shudder) at Indiana. Often it is an assistant who is a big time recruiter and that itself not only is a credential but may mean closer relationship with players. Sometimes it occurs after the coach is tagged interim where the departure is at an awkward time, which I seem to remember being Oates case. But, the usual reasons include familiarity with the system and environment to assure a smooth transition. That dovetails with the common situation where the assistant recruited many of the players and is favored by them generally. My recollection is that Oates had recruited the star at Buffalo and this was at least in part to make sure he didn't jump ship. This actually did not work out as Hurley took a player with him and the star ended up in hot water and had to be dismissed. I agree that we can continue to expect the MAC to do this. This may be more logical when the outgoing coach really was able to assemble a good staff, even it they didn't pay all that well. Majerus may be a good example. For all his being a good coach, he had a gem in Hunsaker who had a ton of responsibility and credit for BSU success. And, although budget is always tight, OTOH, if as in a few cases, the MAC school actually pays their outgoing coach a decent salary and especially where they sign them to longer contract, the "buyout" when a coach moves on may allow them to not worry so much about money. Groce came back to the MAC partly because he had ties, but also he didn't get a bad salary either, succeeding a well paid MAC coach. I hope we see that. True enough we may find assistants ready to move up. But look at Oates. They may have hit the jackpot in the cheap hire, but their best bet now is to realize they have a program that might sustain success and hire a coach at a high enough salary they can sustain it. Our own situation with Buckley may be the cautionary tale. We needed at that time or at least on the next hire to invest(We did not do that with Ray, the athletic leadership was a disaster then, but he brought in Bonzi and that worked out great. Without that, I am not so sure we'd look back with such fond memory) . We passed by coaches or couldn't attract them. Repeatedly. Good coaches could not be enticed into the pool or even were interested and we wouldn't match opportunities they had elsewhere. Our search for Whitford however you like the results put a little more money into the pot and was professionally done. But whether you like the results or not, he will leave the program at some point with a choice for us to make. The program is now repaired in terms of establishing the recruiting footprint in Indiana, we are NOT at the bottom of the MAC, and will likely have a core of decent players to be attractive to a decent coach. IF. If we pony up, add a bit to the budget currently spent. As is true for football spending a bit on assistants won't hurt in that! Really, is there a Cliff Notes version of this garbage ?
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 16:11:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 00hmh on Mar 17, 2018 16:11:19 GMT -6
Nah, I am paid by word.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 17, 2018 17:04:21 GMT -6
If we just had Buffalo’s toughness and refusal to give in. And their athleticism too...
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Post by cardfan on Mar 17, 2018 17:07:20 GMT -6
And Loyola has a 6’9 freshman starter that we had on campus but couldn’t close on. (Krutwig) He seems to have made a pretty choice.
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Buffalo
Mar 17, 2018 18:05:10 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 00hmh on Mar 17, 2018 18:05:10 GMT -6
If we just had Buffalo’s toughness and refusal to give in. And their athleticism too... Not that they did it today, but I want their shooting from outside, too.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 17, 2018 18:09:33 GMT -6
If we just had Buffalo’s toughness and refusal to give in. And their athleticism too... Not that they did it today, but I want their shooting from outside, too. Indeed.
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Buffalo
Mar 18, 2018 9:02:12 GMT -6
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 18, 2018 9:02:12 GMT -6
MAC ADs have been hiring assistants forever. It is almost always a cheap solution which is probably a big factor... It might on occasion be done because it actually makes sense as we did with Hunsaker, who was ready for a HC job. Less true for Ray, who was hired as players and a lot of other people were upset with firing Hunsaker. Could maybe count Buckley in this group of hired assistants (although he was a former assistant). Major colleges have done it. Mike Davis(shudder) at Indiana. Often it is an assistant who is a big time recruiter and that itself not only is a credential but may mean closer relationship with players. Sometimes it occurs after the coach is tagged interim where the departure is at an awkward time, which I seem to remember being Oates case. But, the usual reasons include familiarity with the system and environment to assure a smooth transition. That dovetails with the common situation where the assistant recruited many of the players and is favored by them generally. My recollection is that Oates had recruited the star at Buffalo and this was at least in part to make sure he didn't jump ship. This actually did not work out as Hurley took a player with him and the star ended up in hot water and had to be dismissed. I agree that we can continue to expect the MAC to do this. This may be more logical when the outgoing coach really was able to assemble a good staff, even it they didn't pay all that well. Majerus may be a good example. For all his being a good coach, he had a gem in Hunsaker who had a ton of responsibility and credit for BSU success. And, although budget is always tight, OTOH, if as in a few cases, the MAC school actually pays their outgoing coach a decent salary and especially where they sign them to longer contract, the "buyout" when a coach moves on may allow them to not worry so much about money. Groce came back to the MAC partly because he had ties, but also he didn't get a bad salary either, succeeding a well paid MAC coach. I hope we see that. True enough we may find assistants ready to move up. But look at Oates. They may have hit the jackpot in the cheap hire, but their best bet now is to realize they have a program that might sustain success and hire a coach at a high enough salary they can sustain it. Our own situation with Buckley may be the cautionary tale. We needed at that time or at least on the next hire to invest(We did not do that with Ray, the athletic leadership was a disaster then, but he brought in Bonzi and that worked out great. Without that, I am not so sure we'd look back with such fond memory) . We passed by coaches or couldn't attract them. Repeatedly. Good coaches could not be enticed into the pool or even were interested and we wouldn't match opportunities they had elsewhere. Our search for Whitford however you like the results put a little more money into the pot and was professionally done. But whether you like the results or not, he will leave the program at some point with a choice for us to make. The program is now repaired in terms of establishing the recruiting footprint in Indiana, we are NOT at the bottom of the MAC, and will likely have a core of decent players to be attractive to a decent coach. IF. If we pony up, add a bit to the budget currently spent. As is true for football spending a bit on assistants won't hurt in that! Really, is there a Cliff Notes version of the garbage ? Still wouldn't be worth reading.
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