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Post by cardfan on Jan 28, 2019 18:47:55 GMT -6
You think those are insults? Wow. Go to another board and see what you get.
We beat Toledo easily without those guys. We beat cmu without those guys. You cannot assume they’d be the difference in our FIVE Mac losses. Maybe they’ll help. But don’t expect us to suddenly become a top tier Mac team again when/if they return.
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Post by CallingBS on Jan 28, 2019 19:07:05 GMT -6
You think those are insults? Wow. Go to another board and see what you get. We beat Toledo easily without those guys. We beat cmu without those guys. You cannot assume they’d be the difference in our FIVE Mac losses. Maybe they’ll help. But don’t expect us to suddenly become a top tier Mac team again when/if they return. Exactly. I was not insulting them, just merely stating the obvious - they weren't starters or major contributors before their injuries. People on here act like losing to really bad teams at home isn't a sign of bigger problems, plus you'd think we lost Persons and Teague by the hyperbole. To overstate their loss is just making more excuses. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 28, 2019 19:25:51 GMT -6
We beat Toledo easily without those guys. We beat cmu without those guys. You cannot assume they’d be the difference in our FIVE Mac losses. Maybe they’ll help. But don’t expect us to suddenly become a top tier Mac team again when/if they return. I expect us to be better. I expect us to be a top team only when the starters play well for 25+. And we have 2 or 3 decent reserves to play when needed.
Our first five is pretty good. When they play well and can play 30+ minutes, sure we don't need depth. That is what the good wins have shown us.
Well rarely we don't need depth so much, but we can't do that game after game. I am stunned this board seems to think you can play 5 starters those minutes without suffering at the end of games, even if they play well.
But here's the greater problem. When any one of the starters is just not able to play well 30 minutes, or 20, or some nights not very long at all, we badly need a bench player who has potential to play almost as well as a starter. We need a guard and a front line player.
I am sorry. Josh can do that only some nights, not every night. Gunn has struggled.
Both are not nearly as bad as their biggest critics say, but they are players who can spot a starter. And god help us if we need more than that. Ish was coming on strong, Hazen was a guy we expected to be that good.
We have lost close games where Ish or Hazen would have made the difference. Our starters would have played a bit better with a longer blow. If they weren't playing the drop off to our bench would not have been as great.
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Post by thebsukid on Jan 28, 2019 19:29:46 GMT -6
Let’s put it this way...when they were around we were playing much better, fact or not???
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 28, 2019 19:35:45 GMT -6
This board is exhausting because of posts like this. Ish and Hazen aren't the reasons for our failures, nor will they be huge difference makers if they come back. Thompson is a better defender and handles the ball significantly better than Ish anyway. Hazen would help a tiny bit with depth, but was far from spectacular or a solid contributor. Give me a break, with the exception of the Ohio home game in MAC play, Ish and Hazen would have more than likely been the difference makers. We are all very disappointed, but downplaying and insulting these two players is poor sportsmanship and not a fair way to talk about these two young men. It's fans frustrated with results. That is too be expected to a point. It is undervaluing what Ish and Hazen bring.
I agree to praise Josh who is a fine reserve for limited minutes, but while he may at best match Ish in some games, and is therefore a good asset, he doesn't have the upside.
Hazen is a player we didn't see play as well as we expected, but at the least he provides a choice if find Gunn not playing well in a reserve role. They will make a difference.
The error in BS post is that we don't need a huge difference maker to have won some games we needed. That was the "failure." And if both play well, as they have the potential to do, then in a big game they would also make a difference.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 28, 2019 19:39:35 GMT -6
Let’s put it this way...when they were around we were playing much better, fact or not??? Kid. That when they went down, anybody with any sense said that we were in trouble.
We have had some good games before and after but on balance significantly better while they were available. I have no idea how anyone says we should be just as good with 2 of our top 8 players unavailable when we play an 8 man rotation.
The claim that somehow other teams had just overlooked us and had not tried to beat us in some of those good showings before conference and now they are and that is the explanation is a very weak one.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 28, 2019 19:43:05 GMT -6
The failure is our starting 5 plays like a starting 2 or 3 far too often. Even with the two guys back (might be too late by then) can’t fix that. We do not put together even 35 mins of good basketball amongst the guys expected to play starter quality minutes. Ou game being a big case in point. Get a good game over 35 from either Moses or Teague (take your pick) and we win. We even had to throw Huggins out there.
And I’m still confused and concerned as to why nehls started over KJ. If it was for a spark that’s ridiculous. kJ was coming off a great game a cmu. Nehls took ONE SHOT in 17 mins with the opportunity he was given.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 28, 2019 19:49:37 GMT -6
We beat Loyola without Hazen, and ish getting 3 points. We hammered valpo without Hazen and ish played 18 mins. We lost at Evansville. No Hazen. Ish 2 points. The other teams we played in that period were not good.
Yet we hammered Toledo without them.
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Post by CallingBS on Jan 28, 2019 20:07:32 GMT -6
The lame excuses are mind-numbing
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Post by thebsukid on Jan 28, 2019 20:44:31 GMT -6
Agree Cardfan but if we had Ish and Hazen then Nhls would never start and we could go with Hazen who is clearly stronger than Gunn..
Your points re games won or lost without them is right on...but it’s our depth!
We’d virtually all agree that we’re better with Ish and Hazen as our 6th & 7th men
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Post by lmills72 on Jan 28, 2019 20:53:10 GMT -6
Guys the real key wasn't the loss of Hazen or Ish, it was the loss of one of our managers.
When those two went down, that manager was a big part of practice and we did OK for a while when he was able to step in for Hazen and Ish. But then he had a pretty severe MCL sprain and he wasn't able to practice at all for a while and even now isn't back in full form.
That's also just thrown the whole managerial squad into disarray. I've heard there are practices where there's no gatorade available and during one practice they couldn't even find any basketballs.
Let's face it, our preparation has just plummeted since his injury.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 28, 2019 22:23:36 GMT -6
The real deal is we cant say we would have won or lost if Ish and Hazen were healthy. Would they be able to help of course would it be enough we do not know.
The real deal is we we have way to many players who are either redshirting or just can not do enough.. Nehls, Gunn Manbun and then the redshirts.. Its poor handling of the roster
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Post by sweep on Jan 29, 2019 6:41:23 GMT -6
This board is exhausting because of posts like this. Ish and Hazen aren't the reasons for our failures, nor will they be huge difference makers if they come back. Thompson is a better defender and handles the ball significantly better than Ish anyway. Hazen would help a tiny bit with depth, but was far from spectacular or a solid contributor. Give me a break, with the exception of the Ohio home game in MAC play, Ish and Hazen would have more than likely been the difference makers. We are all very disappointed, but downplaying and insulting these two players is poor sportsmanship and not a fair way to talk about these two young men. Give me a break, Thompson is flat-out a better ball player than Ish. |
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Post by sweep on Jan 29, 2019 6:46:49 GMT -6
Agree Cardfan but if we had Ish and Hazen then Nhls would never start and we could go with Hazen who is clearly stronger than Gunn.. Your points re games won or lost without them is right on...but it’s our depth! We’d virtually all agree that we’re better with Ish and Hazen as our 6th & 7th men This from the guy who suggested Gunn should start. I agree we don't really know exactly what we have in Hazen, but Ish is a known commodity and he can't play the point and is too small to be an effective two guard. |
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