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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 7:44:19 GMT -6
" In this case we have enough good players"
That's a debatable comment to begin with, one injury and suddenly BSU is shorthanded at the 3-4, especially considering this group is going to be in foul trouble most of conference play.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 8:03:01 GMT -6
I guess if he is the best player in practice, while still suffering a broken foot, we can look forward to a future NBA All-Star walking out of the locker room next year. I assure you he was not the best player in practice. He is exactly what the coach described, a player with as much or more raw talent than any player we have who will be a big part of the future but needs some time. If this kid did not red shirt and then was not an NBA all-star when he walked out of the locker room this year, we'd hear a litany of complaints too. At least we won't have to listen to that. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 8:15:26 GMT -6
" In this case we have enough good players" That's a debatable comment to begin with, one injury and suddenly BSU is shorthanded at the 3-4, especially considering this group is going to be in foul trouble most of conference play. In one sense we never have enough good players. I agree. There is no doubt at some time this year Teague would have added something. How much? How soon? Maybe this is a close call? I don't think it is at all a sure thing, but the odds look good to me to red shirt. But, wait a minute, you have spent a lot of time criticizing this recruit who you said you would not even sign and have on the roster. Now, you say it is a disaster he isn't playing. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 8:28:05 GMT -6
"If this kid did not red shirt and then was not an NBA all-star when he walked out of the locker room this year, we'd hear a litany of complaints too."
Not from anyone who is rational. He may be add a little size before his debut, but he would have added the same strength whether he redshirted or not. Some of you guys act like they are speeding up his development by sitting him.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 8:33:01 GMT -6
"But, wait a minute, you have spent a lot of time criticizing this recruit who you said you would not even sign and have on the roster. Now, you say it is a disaster he isn't playing."
No I am saying redshirting a kid who may or may not ever be a starter is a strange decision. I would rather redshirt a kid whom I know will be a four year starter. I never said it's a disaster he isn't playing, far from it. Is it possible for you have a discussion on any subject with out resorting to hyperbole.
BSU would have likely gotten more bang for the buck by redshirting Moses, and throwing Teague in the mix.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 8:35:45 GMT -6
Or might the equation be:
14 miserable seasons + 3 failed coaches + recent 18-game losing streak = fed up, cynical fanbase = impatience with recruiting = skepticism over (another "our best player is in street clothes" excuse + happy talk about future seasons) Your equation models a lot of what we see with the basketball program, and explains the frustration. But, all that impatience isn't going to make us a championship team this year. And the equation, as much as it explains the negative psychology just isn't valid on one point. I don't think he is our best player. With his talent, the coach's job is making that possible, the goal would be to get him to that point. Impatience and frustration, even skepticism in the face of good reasons for happy talk, that is one thing, and I get it. But, we now have posters claiming that he is our best player, even though they wouldn't sign him. Frustration and impatience are overwhelming the rationale side of the equation. Besides, the truth of the proposition is we do have some reasons to be optimistic. It's not all just "happy talk." The upside of a good recruit is one of those reasons. We can be disappointed that good times are not here this year, and that we have to wait, but I do not see Teague making a huge difference this year. So, let's separate this decision from your equation of gloom. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 8:42:03 GMT -6
Well, at least we now have bullet number 1 for the annual "We will be better next year because (fill in the blank)" thread which normally starts after the first of the year. What on earth is wrong with saying we will be better next year? We are better this year, and will be better still next. If you don't think we are substantially better, why not take the kids bet? Most of us had low expectations for the last two years and with good reason. Most of those reasons for pessimism are no longer there. But it still doesn't look like we are ready to be a top contender for a championship. Did you really think a miracle was going to happen this year? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 8:54:28 GMT -6
"What on earth is wrong with saying we will be better next year? "
Better ? Better ? Okay so we are better, we still aren't any good.
"Most of those reasons for pessimism are no longer there."
Holy crap.................
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Post by cardfan on Nov 18, 2015 9:09:07 GMT -6
We're 1 and 1. We lost to a Bradley team we flat should have beaten. Our shooters can't shoot so far. Our guys who can't shoot, shoot too much so far. Our "bigs" are foul prone so far. How in the world do we know we're better yet? Because the coach said so? (not that I don't believe him, but after two games, how can you tell, really) How could the pessimism mostly be gone after only two games, one of which was really bad? We ARE better in terms of we didn't lose NINETEEN straight. We stopped it at 18. But, what is "Better" really? One more win this year? 5? After just two games it certainly doesn't appear this team could beat any truly decent team-- a team without major flaws. Bradley might be ok eventually, but where would they finish in the MAC? Where would EIU finish in the MAC?
Honestly, we have to wait and see where this team goes. Maybe they'll get the hang of winning, maybe not. We just need more evidence before feeling like we're starting to head out of the woods. We SHOULD be better this year. I mean, how could we not be after last year? I think we're all tired of saying we'll be better next year and that we have guys sitting out who are our best players. (by that I mean Person, not Teague. Teague apparently is our most talented, which is far different than being best player) Davis is not at all anything like we were led to believe. Webber, we haven't seen yet. The first step for him is getting his head out of his ass.
Let's wait, say 10 games, to see how we're playing. Not necessarily how much we're winning, but how we're playing.
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 18, 2015 9:20:21 GMT -6
The thing is that I had been thinking of Teague as the crown jewel of Whitford's 2.5 years of recruiting efforts. I'm not the only one. This was backed up by most here on the board, plus the consensus opinion of scouting services and recruiting pundits. I had been counting him heavily on the plus side when weighing the evidence on Whitford.
Now? He's not ready to play as a freshman? He's some sort of project? Or....what? So, Teague goes, from being a heavy factor on the plus side, straight into the WTF category. This sucks. You can spin it how you like, but this sucks.
I have this awful feeling that there will be developments in the future that will cause me to post something like: "I knew as soon as he was red-shirted that...."
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 18, 2015 10:18:27 GMT -6
Yeah right it's the broken foot , that's why he was practicing full speed for the last several weeks. In my opinion it says a couple of things, next years recruiting class is way behind schedule and this is a way to pump it up a little and even out the classes. Also it wouldn't surprise me if there is a pending academic issue that would have caused the loss of half the season anyway. I guess if he is the best player in practice, while still suffering a broken foot, we can look forward to a future NBA All-Star walking out of the locker room next year. I laughed out loud at the conspiracy notion, not because it isn't possible or even probable, but because I had the exact same thought. This is just a new perplexing decision from a program that appears from the outside to be an unorganized mess of top down nonsense. Its all a ploy so out of the shadows can have a shot at an emmy next year. The first epsiode starts with Whitford and the team crawling around a burnt out post apocalyptic worthern. Moses then stands and parts the rubble as Teague and persons come in on bed pulled be Charlie chanting we must rebuild |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 10:49:35 GMT -6
Honestly, we have to wait and see where this team goes. Maybe they'll get the hang of winning, maybe not. We just need more evidence before feeling like we're starting to head out of the woods. We SHOULD be better this year. I mean, how could we not be after last year? I think we're all tired of saying we'll be better next year and that we have guys sitting out who are our best players. (by that I mean Person, not Teague. Teague apparently is our most talented, which is far different than being best player) Davis is not at all anything like we were led to believe. Webber, we haven't seen yet. The first step for him is getting his head out of his ass. Let's wait, say 10 games, to see how we're playing. Not necessarily how much we're winning, but how we're playing. Good points. However much we are tired of hearing "next year," things are enough different this year we should fight that fatigue a little. As you say, we have to be better this year. I don't understand a debate about that. This year. 10 games in, looking at how we play, we will be saying we are significantly better. Well, except for halftime, who will not say it. Even then, fatigue and frustration may lead some to rightfully and righteously tell us what we are not I am sure. Most of those are not willing to take the kid's bet and put their money where their mouth is on the issue of whether we are better. To those who want to be much better, great, but I say let's avoid denial that there is any good news at all. Next year. We will have good underclass players returning with another year's experience. The players we lose, who are or have been much maligned as not good enough will be replaced by players who are practicing with us this year, and they can play. We have a recruiting class that will add talent. So, it would be highly unlikely we don't step up another notch. Those who insist on a title, won't see it this year. Whether we are in contention next year and the following, will be open to debate until it happens, NO team can be completely certain of that. But it's is not the hopeless desperate situation we have experienced in the past. |
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Post by thebsukid on Nov 18, 2015 11:00:33 GMT -6
15 or more is what I know...possibly more!! Right now 100% on track!!
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 11:00:58 GMT -6
The thing is that I had been thinking of Teague as the crown jewel of Whitford's 2.5 years of recruiting efforts. I'm not the only one. This was backed up by most here on the board, plus the consensus opinion of scouting services and recruiting pundits. I had been counting him heavily on the plus side when weighing the evidence on Whitford. Now? He's not ready to play as a freshman? He's some sort of project? Or....what? So, Teague goes, from being a heavy factor on the plus side, straight into the WTF category. This sucks. You can spin it how you like, but this sucks. I have this awful feeling that there will be developments in the future that will cause me to post something like: "I knew as soon as he was red-shirted that...." I hear your pain. I just can't go that far to say it sucks. And, let's not go off, this red shirt does not mean he is a project. It does mean he wasn't as ready as many hoped. It also means the other players he contends with are better than we thought. Personally I never thought he would be a star this year, and I did not expect Bo or Moses to be quite as good. I did (still do) think that by the end of the year Teague could be a plus, but in a limited role. The decision to red shirt is perhaps a close one, but not a huge deal either way, unless of course we were counting on major immediate contributions. I think you always saw him as being, or wished for him to play a role he does not fit, as a power inside player. Not this year. At 6'8" and very athletic he will be good as he gains strength and experience and adjusts to the physical game in college. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 18, 2015 11:15:00 GMT -6
"What on earth is wrong with saying we will be better next year? " Better ? Better ? Okay so we are better, we still aren't any good. "Most of those reasons for pessimism are no longer there." Yeah, yeah, not good enough. Never good enough to have you stop complaining, I suspect. Do you really think we are in the same position this year as we were two years ago, or last year? We had real reason for pessimism then. New coach, had to recruit and develop players. Not a strong group of players returning. That's not true now. We are recruiting Indiana pretty well, have added a lot of talent by transfer. Our coach has gained experience and the players are his players. How can that not be less reason for pessimism? You admit we are better, and now say we are not any good at all. Take the kids bet, then. Why turn down such easy money, if you are so sure. |
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