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Post by lmills72 on Nov 10, 2020 7:32:02 GMT -6
Im not a conspiracy theory guy and I do not believe widespread fraud or cheating allowed Biden to win. I have to question there timing on the release of a 90% effective virus though.. No matter what side you on its easy to see that they had this info last week if not longer. They did not take any money from project warp speed but they did use all relaxed time frames etc that came from it.. They have also said they will be taken the money for the production and disribution of the virus. So while this Vaccine is not one of the ones touted by Trump he still had a big part in it. If this is dropped last week it really could have changed this election.. Now Pfizer did not nothing wrong or illegal its their vaccine and they can release info on it whenever they choose so if they or people around them wanted trump out they played a good card game Well, news on the vaccine and its delivery timeline was out the week before the election. As far as the 90% effective goes ... c'mon, are we really going to start believing science and Big Pharma now? Now that they've got something they want to sell? With other companies and other vaccines soon joining the market? Why should we trust their 90% claim now? Maybe the fine print on that actually reads "90% effective if you stay at home." Remember it's science with all its confusing messaging that got us into this mess in the first place, right? |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 10, 2020 7:59:58 GMT -6
Pfizer announcement very good news.
90% effective likely a good estimate. But 70% would be very good.
You are right it isn't soon enough to help as much as we hoped.
And it will be hard to get more than 50% vaccinated by April. But what a difference for year 2!
70% of 50% would mean 35% effective immunity right away. With those infected previously and masking for those with cold symptoms or testing positive, we would stop spread next season in its tracks at start of flu season.
More vaccination, say 60+%, plus 90% effective, and maybe no masks(!) unless you are sick.
Masks in flu season still a good idea in nursing homes, or around most vulnerable.
In March science said testing, distance, masking could avoid most of this mess. With vaccine added, even poor mitigation would likely work.
Still anti-vax will be the next stupid to overcome.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 10, 2020 9:02:56 GMT -6
Something I enjoy doing is when someone uses the word "science" as though science is some omnipotent being declaring truth I replace it with "the Oracle." The results are often amusing.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 10, 2020 9:36:54 GMT -6
Im not a conspiracy theory guy and I do not believe widespread fraud or cheating allowed Biden to win. I have to question there timing on the release of a 90% effective virus though.. No matter what side you on its easy to see that they had this info last week if not longer. They did not take any money from project warp speed but they did use all relaxed time frames etc that came from it.. They have also said they will be taken the money for the production and disribution of the virus. So while this Vaccine is not one of the ones touted by Trump he still had a big part in it. If this is dropped last week it really could have changed this election.. Now Pfizer did not nothing wrong or illegal its their vaccine and they can release info on it whenever they choose so if they or people around them wanted trump out they played a good card game Well, news on the vaccine and its delivery timeline was out the week before the election. As far as the 90% effective goes ... c'mon, are we really going to start believing science and Big Pharma now? Now that they've got something they want to sell? With other companies and other vaccines soon joining the market? Why should we trust their 90% claim now? Maybe the fine print on that actually reads "90% effective if you stay at home." Remember it's science with all its confusing messaging that got us into this mess in the first place, right? Mills, you're starting to sound like an anti-vaxxer! Science has the luxury of changing direction whenever they discover they were wrong, while we're supposed to just look the other way with our hands in our pockets and whistle a happy tune. Masks help, until they don't. The virus isn't airborne, unless it is. Etcetera and so on. I remember in the 70's being told that we'd be in a new Ice Age by now due to pollution. Then it was global warming, until they just said "climate change" to cover all their bases. We can't reliably predict the weather a day out, yet we're supposed to believe that they can forecast 10 years from now. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 10, 2020 9:52:37 GMT -6
Something I enjoy doing is when someone uses the word "science" as though science is some omnipotent being declaring truth I replace it with "the Oracle." The results are often amusing. I don't much if any of that going on.
Oracles were thought to be portals through which the gods spoke directly to people, without any support or evidence required for the believers to adopt and act upon.
Here we have two opinions presented, one advanced by science, supported by theory and evidence, and one advanced by a "stable genius" with a relative who was once a scientist of sort. You choose to focus on the former as the one that seems more in the nature of a pronouncement by the oracle.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 10, 2020 10:13:38 GMT -6
Well, news on the vaccine and its delivery timeline was out the week before the election. Mills, you're starting to sound like an anti-vaxxer! Science has the luxury of changing direction whenever they discover they were wrong, while we're supposed to just look the other way with our hands in our pockets and whistle a happy tune. Masks help, until they don't. The virus isn't airborne, unless it is. Etcetera and so on. Science does evaluate evidence and offer a tested way to change scientific theory by acquiring evidence in a systematic and that is a reliable way to determine how to change an original hypothesis.
It was always thought the virus was airborne, and spread was through the respiratory system primarily. As evidence accumulated it has become clear that the size of the droplets and how airborne transmission occurs is different than originally thought.
This is hardly a flaw with science, and it now VERY VERY unlikely anyone will say masks do not work in the future.
You misrepresent the situation about masking and prevailing opinion on it. Epidemiology has always said masks work. What you saw was that while early on masks were not considered high priority for the public, the scientists did require masks for health care workers and recognize they were effective. Part of why it was not a widespread public priority was inadequate data on how widespread the virus was, how contagious. We learned new facts, did not change theory. Plus part of the advice to the public was to ensure that scarce PPE was reserved for medical use.
Why are you surprised that as situations change our public health response should be different?
In contrast the Orange Oracle pronounced the virus would soon be gone in February and despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary since his original pronouncement, basically says the same thing today. Granted he admits he knew that was wrong early and simply lied about it. Alleging good reason. If you really want to believe him now, instead of the scientists, shouldn't you at least ask what is he not telling us?
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 10, 2020 10:17:01 GMT -6
You think scientists don't lie?
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 10, 2020 10:42:13 GMT -6
We can't reliably predict the weather a day out, yet we're supposed to believe that they can forecast 10 years from now. We do a pretty good job on tomorrow's weather. A lot better today than we did in 1970, too. No scientist is predicting rain 50 years from now a particular November day. Average temperature that year is a much better bet!
You mention different best opinion that you knew about long term climate in 1970. Are you really surprised thousands of scientists working over years have improved the theory used and discovered new factual data on which to base predictions? 50 years from now we very likely will have more data and improved theory, doesn't make this years science bad. Surely it is NOT perfect. But our science today is far better than in 1970.
In Climate Science not only has underlying basic science theory changed but math models and computing improve. That also explains tomorrow's forecast being more reliable, although better data is important in both too.
This is a science that didn't exist 100 years ago, change is expected. Even in older sciences that go back 1000 years important things change. Want to look at a physics book from 50 years ago, or a chemistry book, or biology or any other science?
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 10, 2020 10:45:39 GMT -6
You think scientists don't lie? Sure, individual scientists may lie, fabricate data even, but there is a good mechanism to catch them. And individual scientists lying do not mean the large number of scientists who define the science are lying. That does not happen. There is a built in error correction in scholarship. Mistaken opinion which is constantly tested and improved prevent long term lying and error. |
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Post by lmills72 on Nov 10, 2020 17:10:41 GMT -6
Well, news on the vaccine and its delivery timeline was out the week before the election. As far as the 90% effective goes ... c'mon, are we really going to start believing science and Big Pharma now? Now that they've got something they want to sell? With other companies and other vaccines soon joining the market? Why should we trust their 90% claim now? Maybe the fine print on that actually reads "90% effective if you stay at home." Remember it's science with all its confusing messaging that got us into this mess in the first place, right? Mills, you're starting to sound like an anti-vaxxer! Science has the luxury of changing direction whenever they discover they were wrong, while we're supposed to just look the other way with our hands in our pockets and whistle a happy tune. Masks help, until they don't. The virus isn't airborne, unless it is. Etcetera and so on. I remember in the 70's being told that we'd be in a new Ice Age by now due to pollution. Then it was global warming, until they just said "climate change" to cover all their bases. We can't reliably predict the weather a day out, yet we're supposed to believe that they can forecast 10 years from now. And remember, don't use your television, your computer or your cell phone if you want to live more than 18 months. Oh, unless, of course, you're wearing your aluminum foil hat and you apply a generous coat of lard to your genitals 3 times a day. Then you'll be fine. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2020 15:31:43 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 17, 2020 21:54:34 GMT -6
Trump said we were going to have a vaccine by November and that now looks to be true. The key question is does it work and will it kill you... Turns out key question was/is whether we get it in time to avoid horrible Christmas numbers. If we don't start taking this more seriously we'll have the worst case predictions come true. Some governors acting but right now it's not close to enough to control this thing. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 17, 2020 22:01:50 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 19, 2020 21:52:25 GMT -6
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 26, 2020 11:09:25 GMT -6
So Im watching the local Indy news and they are saying please stay home with your immediate family... The next story is local food pantry's are planning on feeding 10,000 people this weekend.. Make sense right
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