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Post by 00hmh on Aug 9, 2021 22:01:55 GMT -6
Not a good idea, I agree. Asks for trouble.
But, until the Chicago mayor forbids local schools and private companies from masking and vaccine mandates, she is not in the league of red state legislatures on the stupid meter.
Still. Defending herself and the event by citing a vaccination rate only a little higher than so many red states, and an unenforceable testing requirement may mean she is now vying with the SD governor who thinks the Sturgis rally is a great idea, and supports state laws forbidding local businesses from protecting customers and employees.
Or organizers of Trump rallies who are handing out masks nobody will use.
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Post by halftime on Aug 9, 2021 22:19:30 GMT -6
But, until the Chicago mayor forbids local schools and private companies from masking and vaccine mandates, she is not in the league of red state legislatures on the stupid meter. Still. Defending herself and the event by citing a vaccination rate only a little higher than so many red states, and an unenforceable testing requirement may mean she is now vying with the SD governor who thinks the Sturgis rally is a great idea, and supports state laws forbidding local businesses from protecting customers and employees. Or organizers of Trump rallies who are handing out masks nobody will use. Or could it be none of this is actually political and you got sucked in by CNN. It could be it's people with differing opinions on a subject where information is far from conclusive. |
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 10, 2021 6:44:53 GMT -6
Sure. There's room for some doubt.
You realize you just said NONE of it is political. That is surely false. Both sides of the debate.
Am I wrong you cited the reason to doubt you have is partly a network news source you aren't comfortable with on political grounds?
OK. Trust scientists and health care professionals.
What is the factual doubt you have? Do you expect absolute certainty?
If in doubt how much do you ignore possible danger?
Help me understand your thinking.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 11, 2021 20:24:27 GMT -6
Talked to my pharmacist friend today and he said the number of people getting vaccinated nearly tripled last week from the previous week.
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 11, 2021 21:42:16 GMT -6
We're behind the curve. The rate has been so low we need even more, and to sustain the higher numbers well into September.
With luck then we can reach 75%. Add enough natural immunity cases we maybe suppress community spread of current variants.
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 11:40:46 GMT -6
That policy was not very effective was it? But your party of idiots labeled it pure xenophobia that had no basis in science. Besides the actual deaths are far lower than originally predicted, so don't give us a bunch of preachy bullshit about responsibility. I've been thinking about this post since it appeared, and reflecting on it. I agree there was a big flap about this as xenophobia and neither side had the science right exactly. We needed to collect information and learn about the virus and we took measures that were generally second best. Treating it as an emergency and being wrong is excusable. Both sides reacted to it in the political realm, not the science.
The science on travel bans is that they are NOT going to be very effective unless they are VERY strict. AND if they are initiated VERY soon after the virus is circulating.
Trumps ban allowed many from China to come to the US, many already had come in country anyway, or had traveled around the world. We were locking the barn door after the horses were gone. The benefit, like that of lockdowns is to slow the spread a bit, but a pandemic means there are other nations where the virus was circulating. All the evidence is that there were cases in the USA long before the ban, so IF a ban was going to work we needed contact tracing and masking to allow us to find them in time. Unless we had responded very strongly in other ways, it was bound to be little good.
BTW there is some reason to say that the Trump administration played politics with xenophobia if they were not subject to it, and the travel ban fit well with their anti-immigration stance. Both parties played politics with the ban which was largely irrelevant in the history of the virus spreading in the US.
As for predicted deaths, I am not sure what your point is, but early days there was a lot of lack of knowledge and models were crude. Things improved very rapidly on that front and by April we had very good predictions. Trump made a disastrous error by ignoring the high risk, and preaching that all was well. After that decision and failing to abandon it well into the Fall, anything small we gained by a travel ban was long gone.
20-20 hindsight says we should have sold masking and contact tracing more and we could have avoided painful shutdowns. The shutdown strategy was proven effective to slow the virus, give us time to learn and develop a national strategy, but again we bungled the reopening, without using the time to initiate testing, masking and contract tracing. It did not work as well as anybody wanted.
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Post by halftime on Aug 12, 2021 12:50:13 GMT -6
But your party of idiots labeled it pure xenophobia that had no basis in science. Besides the actual deaths are far lower than originally predicted, so don't give us a bunch of preachy bullshit about responsibility.
The science on travel bans is that they are NOT going to be very effective unless they are VERY strict. AND if they are initiated VERY soon after the virus is circulating.
No the science of of this travel ban was it needed to be started as soon as possible. The rest of your 700 word pile of bull crap I didn't bother to read. |
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 12:56:15 GMT -6
The science on travel bans is that they are NOT going to be very effective unless they are VERY strict. AND if they are initiated VERY soon after the virus is circulating.
No the science of of this travel ban was it needed to be started as soon as possible. You read enough to make a clearly wrong response...A soon as possible can be too late. It was in this case. Especially if you are in denial it is dangerous, do not track, and do not mitigate spread when it is detected.
It does only a little good to stop virus coming into the country if it's already here... This ban was after the virus was circulating here.
And THIS travel ban only stopped some people from entering, many from countries not particularly dangerous, but many people from other countries entered with the virus.
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Post by halftime on Aug 12, 2021 13:08:00 GMT -6
That's like saying don't put out a fire unless you catch it while it's still on the match. Are you really this dumb ?
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 14:20:24 GMT -6
That's like saying don't put out a fire unless you catch it while it's still on the match. Are you really this dumb ? You don't stop a forest fire by concentrating on not letting other campers start fires elsewhere by closing campgrounds.
As I said the travel ban was likely ineffective because the fire was already spreading. Other measures were needed since the virus is already into the population it will spread. I'm OK with the travel ban if it is done very strictly and very early in the pandemic. It can slow the spread but any person entering who is infected has to be quarantined and contact tracing done.
Travel ban, even if extremely early has to be perfect to be an adequate response without contact tracing, testing and broader measures to stop community spread.
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Post by halftime on Aug 12, 2021 14:25:35 GMT -6
The travel ban was a single component of a much larger plan. It was the first implemented because it could be accomplished overnight. You are a clown.
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Post by villagepub on Aug 12, 2021 14:47:58 GMT -6
Is this thread still going?
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 15:00:02 GMT -6
The travel ban was a single component of a much larger plan. It was the first implemented because it could be accomplished overnight. You are a clown. I agree it was simple to implement. I even have no great complaint about the ban, or about vaccine development. Both were reasonable ideas. What was the rest of the plan that you think was going to work without mitigation?
However, this all started when I pointed out the obvious which was a ban simply not going to be effective without Administration commitment to testing, contact tracing and masking. There was no significant commitment to that. The rest of the plan we saw based on the record was vaccine development and passing the buck to the states on everything else. And there was way too much denial that we had much of a problem.
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 15:09:13 GMT -6
Is this thread still going? Until we are out of the woods, I am committed to comment.
I lost some people close to me to Covid. I hate the misinformation and denial and lack of good Federal response that contributed to that loss and is still today stopping effective public health response.
Biden is an improvement in recognizing the problem is real and actively promoting public health. Congress has appropriated funding. Trump's vaccine is available.
Yet the misinformation campaign is ongoing and we are still in trouble. And the development of virus variants is a big threat. The next variant or the next pandemic threat down the road, we have to do a better job. The politics around public health are very worrying.
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Post by villagepub on Aug 12, 2021 15:20:19 GMT -6
Is this thread still going? Until we are out of the woods, I am committed to comment.
I lost some people close to me to Covid. I hate the misinformation and denial and lack of good Federal response that contributed to that loss and is still today stopping effective public health response.
Biden is an improvement in recognizing the problem is real and actively promoting public health. Congress has appropriated funding. Trump's vaccine is available.
Yet the misinformation campaign is ongoing and we are still in trouble. And the development of virus variants is a big threat. The next variant or the next pandemic threat down the road, we have to do a better job. The politics around public health are very worrying.
Glad you feel you are the bastion of correct information. The losses that you have encountered. Were they all due to what you feel was or interpret as misinformation? Exactly whose misinformation campaign is in play? |
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