|
Post by halftime on Aug 12, 2021 15:50:30 GMT -6
The travel ban was a single component of a much larger plan. It was the first implemented because it could be accomplished overnight. You are a clown. I agree it was simple to implement. I even have no great complaint about the ban, or about vaccine development. Both were reasonable ideas. What was the rest of the plan that you think was going to work without mitigation?
However, this all started when I pointed out the obvious which was a ban simply not going to be effective without Administration commitment to testing, contact tracing and masking. There was no significant commitment to that. The rest of the plan we saw based on the record was vaccine development and passing the buck to the states on everything else. And there was way too much denial that we had much of a problem.
Contact tracing and masking started almost immediately, and testing started as soon a reliable test was developed. Are you being stupid on purpose ? Look I am laid up in St Vincent for several days, I don't really feel like dealing with your willfully ignorant ass.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 16:07:52 GMT -6
Until we are out of the woods, I am committed to comment.
I lost some people close to me to Covid. I hate the misinformation and denial and lack of good Federal response that contributed to that loss and is still today stopping effective public health response.
Glad you feel you are the bastion of correct information. The losses that you have encountered. Were they all due to what you feel was or interpret as misinformation? Exactly whose misinformation campaign is in play? I did not say "all due." Much of the problem we faced early on was lack of information. Much of that understandable. Today, we don't have that excuse, so I especially hate the vaccine misinformation we see. I hate the irresponsible public health strategy of the Trump administration. Lack of testing, contact tracing, and promoting masks contributed to the spread of the virus and to the deaths I saw close up.
The losses I suffered, as have been many others, might have been avoided if the Administration had not downplayed the threat and had taken more effective action. Downplaying the threat when you knew it was serious was a form of disinformation, failure to listen to the experts and failure to actively promote public health was enabled in large part by misinformation.
There are losses today because people are not vaccinated. If am wrong about the past, I am motivated to actively correct misinformation that is widespread. If you want to debate vaccine effectiveness, bring it on.
Most deaths due to Covid in the US, today, are in the population that is not vaccinated.
|
|
|
Post by bsutrack on Aug 12, 2021 16:48:10 GMT -6
Glad you feel you are the bastion of correct information. The losses that you have encountered. Were they all due to what you feel was or interpret as misinformation? Exactly whose misinformation campaign is in play? I did not say "all due." Much of the problem we faced early on was lack of information. Much of that understandable. Today, we don't have that excuse, so I especially hate the vaccine misinformation we see. I hate the irresponsible public health strategy of the Trump administration. Lack of testing, contact tracing, and promoting masks contributed to the spread of the virus and to the deaths I saw close up.
The losses I suffered, as have been many others, might have been avoided if the Administration had not downplayed the threat and had taken more effective action. Downplaying the threat when you knew it was serious was a form of disinformation, failure to listen to the experts and failure to actively promote public health was enabled in large part by misinformation.
What I can't understand in your case is why rile against Trump but never against the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). It's becoming more clear with every passing day the virus started in the Wuhan Lab. summit.news/2021/08/12/danish-who-chief-says-covid-patient-zero-was-likely-wuhan-lab-worker/"One of the World Health Organization’s leading infectious diseases experts says that the first COVID ‘patient zero’ was “likely” a lab worker at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Peter Embarek, who spearheaded a WHO team sent to investigate the lab earlier this year, told Danish television that the likely source of the pandemic was someone infected by a bat during fieldwork or at one of the laboratories in Wuhan. The report notes that the type of bat involved in passing on the infection, the horse shoe bat, was only present inside the Wuhan lab and does not live naturally in the general Wuhan area." As the Covid-19 pandemic began, the CCP banned flights from Wuhan to other Chinese cities, but allowed flights from Wuhan to other nations including the US. The CCP hid information about the virus and blocked access to the Wuhan lab. These actions by the CCP did more to spread the virus than anything you imagine Donald Trump did.
|
|
|
Post by bsutrack on Aug 12, 2021 16:55:22 GMT -6
Super Spread Event at the US Southern Border Continues
The city of Laredo, Texas has stopped accepting migrants who have been bused in from elsewhere after two local government officials confirmed that 40% of them have tested positive for Covid-19, according to the Washington Examiner.
Not a peep from the Biden administration about mandatory vaccinations for illegals, of course.
"That was very high," said Laredo Mayor Pete Saenz in an interview with the Examiner, referring to the infection rate among migrants dropped off by the Border Patrol last week. The figures were confirmed by Laredo's health authority, Dr. Victor Trevino.
The 40% infection rate is the highest known positivity rate along the U.S.-Mexico border. Last week, McAllen, Texas, reported a 15% positivity rate among migrants released from custody.
Concerned that migrants arriving in Laredo would further strain hospital resources, Laredo officials contracted private bus companies to transport migrants arriving from the Rio Grande Valley to larger cities across the state. By not admitting migrants on the McAllen buses, the city is not required to test them for the coronavirus and could forward the families elsewhere. Those who test positive cannot travel and must be quarantined for 10 days, a situation Saenz wanted to evade to avoid migrant overflow. -Washington Examiner
Thousands of migrant families have been transported from the Rio Grande Valley region to Laredo because of overcrowded shelters. The migrants were immediately tested upon arrival - with positivity rates jumping from 4% in April to 40% in August.
Meanwhile, Judicial Watch reports that the Department of Homeland Security has quietly been using a small regional airport in central Texas to disperse "large groups of illegal immigrants throughout the U.S. after releasing them from detention facilities in other parts of the state, city and federal sources confirm."
Local authorities in the city where this is occurring, Abilene, are being kept in the dark and a federal lawmaker is demanding an end to the “reckless and irresponsible practice” as well as answers from DHS after a series of local news reports exposed the covert operation.
Abilene is located about 180 miles west of Dallas and has a population of around 120,000. The area’s airport is run by the city and its transportation director reveals in a news story that local officials are not aware of what exactly is going on with the illegal immigrant flights. The airport is only given 24 to 48 hours of notice before flights arrive, according to Abilene Director of Transportation Don Green, who verifies the planes are private charters from Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the DHS agency in charge.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 17:08:41 GMT -6
China is not now the problem.
Immigrants are not the problem.
Vaccination resistance is the problem.
State politics are the problem.
|
|
|
Post by bsutrack on Aug 12, 2021 17:35:21 GMT -6
Biden's open border policy is now a problem; Super Spread Event in progress
Mixed messages from the Biden Administration on vaccines and masks is now a problem
Get vaccinated and you don't have to wear a mask anymore Get vaccinated and you still need to wear a mask Wear 2 or even 3 masks at the same time Paper and cloth masks do little; large percentage of folks infected state they worn mask 100% of the time Wear masks at home with your other family members.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 19:38:32 GMT -6
Would you really prefer that Biden misinform people and NOT change message when science discovered that the virus variant had changed what works best, that people did not and apparently will not get vaccinated?
It's a messaging problem, hard for people to hear bad news.
Biden consistently is saying to get vaccinated. He is consistently saying masks aren't needed if there isn't much community spread danger.
|
|
|
Post by bsutrack on Aug 12, 2021 19:51:41 GMT -6
I would prefer Biden require illegals to have proof of vaccination or a negative covid-19 test dated not over 72 hours before they enter the USA; just like Americans are required to have when they return to the US after visiting Mexico.
Stop treating illegals who are breaking our laws better than American citizens.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 20:12:03 GMT -6
I would prefer Biden require illegals to have proof of vaccination... Good plan, you know we actually do test those detained. Probably should vaccinate them, use all those doses of vaccine which vaccine hesitant Americans refuse to use and are expiring. Might as well put them to good use. The small threat presented by those border immigration holding camps would be almost entirely eliminated.
|
|
|
Post by bleadingcardwhite on Aug 12, 2021 21:07:40 GMT -6
I still find it oddly convenient that all the calls to reinstate mandates are coming at the perfect time for the beginning of the school year… it’s almost as if the teacher’s association is writing the CDC guidelines…. Convenient….
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 12, 2021 21:47:39 GMT -6
I still find it oddly convenient that all the calls to reinstate mandates are coming at the perfect time for the beginning of the school year... The danger of spread does increase in the Fall, and we have a new variant in the picture. Most teachers are going to be vaccinated, I am not sure I see how they gain by mandates.
The idea you let each parent freely choose using informed choice has an obvious drawback.
The parent who takes the risk isn't responsible for the resulting harm.
|
|
|
Post by nazcard on Aug 12, 2021 23:54:28 GMT -6
Contact tracing and masking started almost immediately, and testing started as soon a reliable test was developed. Are you being stupid on purpose ? Look I am laid up in St Vincent for several days, I don't really feel like dealing with your willfully ignorant ass. Best wishes and peace be with you; as an aside, I worked in the Critical Care Lab at St. Vincent back in the early 80s. It was a good healthcare center then, and in all likelihood, still is.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 13, 2021 6:37:21 GMT -6
I agree it was simple to implement. I even have no great complaint about the ban, or about vaccine development...I pointed out the obvious which was a ban simply not going to be effective without Administration commitment to testing, contact tracing and masking. There was no significant commitment to that....there was way too much denial that we had much of a problem. Contact tracing and masking started almost immediately, and testing started as soon a reliable test was developed. Started maybe. But sadly not true that it was supported, or adequate. We made a false start on testing and Trump consistently opposed more testing, offering often the misinformation that more testing inflated the case numbers. Early on contact tracing was stymied by asymptomatic spread. Later we did not provide adequate tests even in symptomatic cases. www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/09/state-us-contact-tracing-it-working/Masks worked. Thankfully. But, not soon enough discovered to be critical and don't pretend Trump encouraged public health efforts for mask mandates. The politics wás a serious problem and masks were derided in the Trump presidency. We lacked uniform effective national policy. Regularly downplayed the problem. This thread provides a running history of people unconvinced we had a major problem or needed mitigation of any kind. Today? Look at continuing misinformation and controversy. Now extended to vaccination. Sorry you're laid up...good look with your health.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Aug 13, 2021 9:58:55 GMT -6
But, those many who are not vaccinated and in ICU beds now probably aren't quite as satisfied as you are with the knowledge that the variant is not racking up the same numbers in overall population. Those who will recover will cost us a lot of health care dollars, hurt productivity in industry and suffer needlessly.
As sad as it might be, they made an informed choice about the vaccine and decided not to get it. In a free society, you give people information and allow them to make up their own minds. It sounds like Calhoun's friend made a bad decision that hopefully he lives to regret. Joe Biden's open border policy has facilitated the import of illegal drugs... This is not just a problem for Calhoun's friend. The issue is also the harm to others. The obvious harm is the extended care and greater cost for ICU treatment for the patient, that is true. You totally miss that when hospitals are slammed it means health care for all reasons for others is now limited.
It is also not just the person who "chooses" freely to risk illness who is hurt even when he wins the bet for himself and is asymptomatic. If the person not vaccinated passes along a disease it impacts others, with a multiplier of the costs for everyone as a result.
See the link above about the Nevada parent who sent his kids to school Covid positive, knew it. 80 kids who had no choice or knowledge of the risk had to take the it, may have been hurt, not just one.
Others are hurt when the Covid patient needs expensive health care, and not only does he pay, but his insurance company pays the bulk of the cost and passes the cost along to others as it raises premiums for all other insured. As I have suggested elsewhere perhaps there is justification for a premium increase if not vaccinated.
As for the health care costs of current immigration policy, Biden certainly is not advocating an "open border" policy, that is exaggeration and misinformation. But sure, there are good reasons to overhaul immigration policy. That is a long term issue, I fully agree.
However. Are you really sure about this remote threat of overdose health care being one? Surely there are better ways to fight that problem than poring money into border wars, today with very unlikely short term impact on health care compared to Covid which is a crisis right now. That's another debate anyway. Stick to this one.
|
|
|
Post by halftime on Aug 13, 2021 13:40:14 GMT -6
They just gave me a Covid shot. I'll let you know if I start puking or anything.
|
|