|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 8, 2020 9:03:48 GMT -6
They can vote to change it for next year but not this year. They are bound by state law. That is basically right.
Arguably in the future they could dispense with popular vote altogether for President, or make the election for President an advisory vote and reserve the right to ignore it. Can't imagine the people of Wisconsin or any state would be real happy with that.
Today is important since it is "safe harbor day," and it appears enough states have submitted electoral slates to make some this moot. A rather extreme and remote legal maneuver would now be required to ignore the voters.
Wisconsin has not submitted their electors, today. So more of it alive there with some chance the legislature would be allowed to act, but no state court or federal court has so far ruled that is possible. And it requires the legislature to meet. And arguably the governor to sign off on a change in election law.
Apart from that change the law theory, the Trump team can make other tenuous arguments how to ignore the vote. For example just don't submit a valid slate at all! Throw out the vote, delay certification and submission so no vote is submitted by today (safe harbor day) or by the deadline for submission. Or, perhaps send two slates after safe harbor and hope Congress chooses theirs.
Wisconsin is 10 votes, not enough by itself to matter. So on to the states where it is harder.
A few unlikely and very tenuous maneuvers might, if they invalidated enough states so nobody had a majority, throw the election into the House. This implausible but remotely possible scenario that enough state legislatures would reject democracy must also assume that the GOP House delegations would not hesitate to set a precedent. It would take only a few GOP members to refuse to obey the wishes of Lord Trump. It would likely require the US Supreme Ct to act favorably as well.
If all this happens and if the GOP delegations in the House then get a chance to decide this election based on substituting their judgment about fraud for what no state election process or court has found it will be a historic rejection of law and democratic procedure.
So far the Trump team has been rejected in every effort and not found a way to do any of the above, rescuing the Congressional delegations from participating in the scheme. Presumably they tried their best shots first...so do not expect anything to work now.
|
|
|
|
Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Dec 8, 2020 13:29:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure what's funnier, Trump calling the Speaker of the House for both Pennsylvania and Michigan trying to get them to change their electors (how is that even legal, by the way?), or still trying to claim he won Georgia when two recounts and an audit say otherwise. States get to choose how electors are elected. I get that, I'm asking how it's legal for the president to use the power of the presidency to try and pressure the legislatures to change their appointed electors. |
|
|
|
Post by cardfan on Dec 8, 2020 14:13:43 GMT -6
If it’s not illegal it’s really bad form and subverts democracy.
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 8, 2020 14:43:38 GMT -6
Trump's loyal base believes him and simply doesn't believe any contrary fact or reasoning.
He created throughout the campaign a narrative he would lose only by fraud. Amazingly he now doesn't have to prove it!
He's literally cashing in on that faith.
This is the real election fraud.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Dec 8, 2020 15:02:40 GMT -6
You don't have to be a Trump supporter to see that there are some ballot shenanigans going on. The question has always been to what extent.
Just because CNN/WaPo/liberal outlets dismiss it doesn't mean nothing happened. They constantly skew the news by refusing to cover certain stories. Hunter Biden anyone?
I find it odd that there's pressure to end the fight because it "subverts democracy" (whatever the hell that means), but widespread fraudulent ballots would be a much bigger threat to our democracy.
I don't think Trump has a chance of somehow pulling out a win, but at least some light is being shined on the ways absentee/mail-in ballots can be exploited.
|
|
|
|
Post by lmills72 on Dec 8, 2020 17:28:48 GMT -6
Hunter Biden. That's laughable.
Other than CNN/WaPo/liberal outlets, you know who's barely touched the Hunter Biden "story" since the election? Fox. Particularly the trio of Hannity/Carlson/Ingraham.
You'd think that if it was something they truly thought was important, they would still be talking about it.
But it's just dead to them, like it never happened, like they never talked about. Maybe now that the election is over, it no longer serves their purposes. But that wouldn't really serve the truth, which is, you know, what they're all about.
Never fear. I'm sure that once Papa Joe is sworn in, there will come a time in the future when they'll find the topic politically expedient again.
|
|
|
|
Post by lmills72 on Dec 8, 2020 17:34:18 GMT -6
I don't think Trump has a chance of somehow pulling out a win, but at least some light is being shined on the ways absentee/mail-in ballots can be exploited. You know you'd think Trump would have shined a light on all that exploitation after he was almost cheated out of the 2016 election. But for nearly four years he did nothing, and now the world is paying for his lack of leadership. What else is new. |
|
|
|
Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Dec 8, 2020 23:32:40 GMT -6
Trump complained the 2016 primaries were rigged when Ted Cruz won Iowa.
I think his supporters have gotten so used to his sociopathic narcissism, they've completely lost sight of how deranged he is.
|
|
|
|
Post by villagepub on Dec 9, 2020 7:19:39 GMT -6
Trump's loyal base believes him and simply doesn't believe any contrary fact or reasoning. He created throughout the campaign a narrative he would lose only by fraud. Amazingly he now doesn't have to prove it! He's literally cashing in on that faith. This is the real election fraud. Come on now! The Democrats were building the same narrative for the past 4 years. "If Orange Man wins, it's only due to fraud." Both parties built the same narrative and there would've been riots if Trump had won re-election, or as the press calls them "mostly peaceful gatherings." |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 9, 2020 8:46:54 GMT -6
Trump's loyal base believes him and simply doesn't believe any contrary fact or reasoning. He created throughout the campaign a narrative he would lose only by fraud. Amazingly he now doesn't have to prove it! He's literally cashing in on that faith. This is the real election fraud. Come on now! The Democrats were building the same narrative for the past 4 years. "If Orange Man wins, it's only due to fraud." Both parties built the same narrative... That is BS. There was no constant stream of campaign statements from the Biden campaign to that effect. Biden at no point said he would not accept loss.
To say the Trump team compares in any way to the Biden team is ridiculous.
Trump announced well in advance he intended to contest the outcome if he lost and not accept a loss. He created a team for that purpose. There was no corresponding effort by Biden.
Biden was prepared to contest such claims by Trump and was prepared, but there was no plan to refuse to accept results.
There was concern on the Democrats side to get out the vote. There was complaint in the period before the election about voter intimidation and voter suppression. These were not accompanied by claims of fraud or deception by GOP election officials, there was public account of official action to purge voter rolls and limit voting opportunity in some cases, and that is a public policy debate about election law. NOT accusation of law breaking (in most cases).
There was no accusation of wrong doing AFTER the election for isolated instances of that conduct, even in narrowly contested contests such as Florida and other states narrowly won by Trump.
But you are dodging the real fraud here which is the Trump fund raising con, where he asks for money from loyal supporters to fight the election and is actually paying campaign debt and building a PAC. All done on the basis of "fraud" which he is NOT actually alleging in his many lawsuits, since the evidence is missing of that...
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 9, 2020 8:47:55 GMT -6
The post election machinations of the Trump campaign are unprecedented. Compare 2016 to 2020.
In that election dependent mostly on the same states, how many lawsuits, recounts, and what volume of whining by the losing candidate?
In Trump world, it was always an open question just how churlish he would be in defeat, and some rhetoric to the effect he would simply not accept the results regardless.
If you think this is normal, compare the two elections in 2016 and 2020. How many recounts, or lawsuits did you see, and what volume of whining from the losing candidate did you see compared to this? At what point did the losing candidate acknowledge the win? At what point did Democrats in the WH begin the orderly transfer, it was immediate, and when did Obama and other top level Democrats actually speak out urging the nation to accept the result?
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 9, 2020 9:08:15 GMT -6
You don't have to be a Trump supporter to see that there are some ballot shenanigans going on. The question has always been to what extent. Just because CNN/WaPo/liberal outlets dismiss it doesn't mean nothing happened. They constantly skew the news by refusing to cover certain stories. Hunter Biden anyone? It is apparently not the media alone that dismiss the allegations.
It is now EVERY set of state election officials, including GOP officials, and it is EVERY court. Including now the Supreme Court.
Quite a conspiracy marshaled against Lord Trump. Mafia, Democrats, Republicans who supported him, Judges he appointed.
How could old senile low energy Joe manage that!?
Really stunning that with the greatest legal team headed by the greatest lawyer in America in Rudy, such a thing could happen. Even with the ace Trump legal team assembled well before the election to combat anticipated widespread "fraud." After that well orchestrated kick off press conference at the porno shop nobody could possibly have expected it.
It's like health care and the pandemic, I guess. Trump was just overwhelmed by something nobody, even the great Trump, could have ever thought would be so hard.
|
|
|
|
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Dec 9, 2020 9:15:01 GMT -6
States get to choose how electors are elected. I get that, I'm asking how it's legal for the president to use the power of the presidency to try and pressure the legislatures to change their appointed electors. I guess it depends on what power he's using. If he's asking them to do something stupid they should have the guts to say no without making a federal case about it. |
|
|
|
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Dec 9, 2020 9:19:41 GMT -6
Something I get a kick out of is the people who think Trump is a compulsive liar, unless he says something that be construed as being against his own interest. If he said something that makes him look bad it's just accepted as truth. The reporting on the Woodward story that he knew how bad the virus was in February was laughable. Nobody knew anything. He's a liar. He will always claim after the fact that he had perfect foresight. But because he could be blasted for it nobody questioned the obvious lie.
|
|
|
|
Post by villagepub on Dec 9, 2020 10:16:38 GMT -6
Come on now! The Democrats were building the same narrative for the past 4 years. "If Orange Man wins, it's only due to fraud." Both parties built the same narrative... That is BS. There was no constant stream of campaign statements from the Biden campaign to that effect. Biden at no point said he would not accept loss.
There absolutely was, and it was topped off by Hillary Clinton telling Biden "do not concede, under any circumstances" and that absentee ballots could be rigged. Why was the Biden team so lawyered up, if there wasn't the same strategy? |
|
