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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 7, 2021 18:09:03 GMT -6
Nor was, for example, Saint Michael of Ferguson. She was shot breaking down a door with lawful professional armed security inside warning her to cease the threat to the safety of those they were protecting. I see no parallel.
The door was likely in very grave danger.
St. Michael was only bull rushing a cop whose gun he had previously tried to take. No doors where threatened at all.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 7, 2021 18:56:03 GMT -6
She was shot breaking down a door with lawful professional armed security inside warning her to cease the threat to the safety of those they were protecting. I see no parallel.
The door was likely in very grave danger.
St. Michael was only bull rushing a cop whose gun he had previously tried to take. No doors where threatened at all.
You really think these two incidents are comparable? Is there any justification for criminal charges in this case? Anything doubtful here? Any reason to think the shooter was motivated by any animus? In that previous case of police confronting a suspect, one on one, with applicable guidelines on use of force, I see no context of a riot with 100's of others nearby increasing the threat? Were others being protected in that case? Lay out the details of the two shootings. But assume the officers were both justified, was the situated created by and instigated by the President? Any thoughts on that? |
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Jan 7, 2021 22:26:25 GMT -6
Pretty fitting way for the Trump era to end. Just like his failed businesses, he burns it to the ground and slinks away while everyone else watches the chaos.
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Post by halftime on Jan 8, 2021 4:05:41 GMT -6
Pretty fitting way for the Trump era to end. Just like his failed businesses, he burns it to the ground and slinks away while everyone else watches the chaos. Yes and even with serious character flaws he accomplished far more than Obama. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 8, 2021 7:16:01 GMT -6
Remember, what happened at the Capitol is an insurrection. What you see below is just a spirited protest against injustice.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 8, 2021 7:20:48 GMT -6
The door was likely in very grave danger.
St. Michael was only bull rushing a cop whose gun he had previously tried to take. No doors where threatened at all.
In that previous case of police confronting a suspect, one on one, with applicable guidelines on use of force, I see no context of a riot with 100's of others nearby increasing the threat? The Minneapolis cops would have needed machine guns and possibly artillery and a boatload of ammunition to deal with the increased threat, had they applied 00's standards of when and who to shoot. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 10:42:02 GMT -6
In that previous case of police confronting a suspect, one on one, with applicable guidelines on use of force, I see no context of a riot with 100's of others nearby increasing the threat? The Minneapolis cops would have needed machine guns and possibly artillery and a boatload of ammunition to deal with the increased threat, had they applied 00's standards of when and who to shoot. If you really think that is the big issue here, you are missing something. This is not an issue of undue use of force. That is not the story. Nor is it a case where the summer violence caused this violence in any way.
Everybody should be concerned to investigate possible police wrongdoing. That will be investigated here, but if you see this as parallel, I don't.
Nobody supports violence in the streets by rioters. Whatever the reason. In the summer riots and in this "case" certainly there is some vague similarity in a legitimate gathering. And in it's aftermath things getting out of hand. You need to address the issue raised by this incident that is very different.
THIS gathering was always intended to disrupt the Congress and influence that vote counting process. I see no parallel. This was not spontaneous protest and expression of outrage at an unexpected and shocking incident. On the contrary, POTUS in his invitation to this rally promised "wild things," he invited groups KNOWN to be violent and extreme. He fueled the violence during his participation in the event.
Nor was this the result of planners of the event having no way to control the outcome. There was a way to prevent this violence. (The President "maintained order" and tear gassed protestors to make his Bible walk.) In this case he made no plan for sufficient security to allow Congress to function. Instead actually urged the crowd to march... The anger and emotion which you may wish to argue was similar (I disagree) was INTENTIONALLY exacerbated by the President at this event.
This was not a spontaneous incident in any sense. The real violence here, the incursion into the Capitol to disrupt Congress physically, was planned in advance of the event by means of social media. Yes, innocent people were swept up in it, but those entering the Capitol and threatening staff, Congress itself, security officers and others were largely there quite intentionally with that object in mind.
Whether intentionally or incompetently the President invited this violence. The "stolen election" claims were largely manufactured by him with groundless exaggerated, mostly dis proven allegations.
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Post by sweep on Jan 8, 2021 12:53:08 GMT -6
The Minneapolis cops would have needed machine guns and possibly artillery and a boatload of ammunition to deal with the increased threat, had they applied 00's standards of when and who to shoot. This was not spontaneous protest
So the summer riots were "spontaneous protests" ? Seems odd someone would show up at a predetermined time to loot a Macy's out of concern over policing policies. It appears to me it was more like a free for all, perpetrated by lawless clowns who used mob numbers to shield themselves from prosecution. In fact I didn't see a lot of relevant protesting going on in either the summer incidents or this weeks nonsense. Why you can't see a parallel is amusing, and sort par for your usual blind dismissal of the obvious. Thanks for the head shaker, I needed a good laugh today. |
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Post by sweep on Jan 8, 2021 14:28:13 GMT -6
It's also amusing the media who spent all summer simultaneously dismissing and rationalizing violence is suddenly shocked by violence.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 8, 2021 15:08:07 GMT -6
It's also amusing the media who spent all summer simultaneously dismissing and rationalizing violence is suddenly shocked by violence. Yeah, I remember being annoyed that nobody would use the word "riots" in the summer riots. But they immediately called this a riot. The media is hilariously hypocritical. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 16:12:50 GMT -6
This was not spontaneous protest So the summer riots were "spontaneous protests" ? Seems odd someone would show up at a predetermined time to loot a Macy's out of concern over policing policies. It appears to me it was more like a free for all, perpetrated by lawless clowns who used mob numbers to shield themselves from prosecution. In fact I didn't see a lot of relevant protesting going on in either the summer incidents or this weeks nonsense. Why you can't see a parallel is amusing, and sort par for your usual blind dismissal of the obvious. Thanks for the head shaker, I needed a good laugh today. The Capitol incursion was result of an event scheduled for weeks. The actual break in itself was planned on social media days before it occurred. So I do not consider the summer events to be planned to same degree.
In terms of preventing the actions, Trump certainly could have beefed up security as part of the event planning even if he had no knowledge of the extremists plans. It is quite likely federal authorities knew in advance of the radical plans, and may or may not have passed the word to William Barr and the President. Trump now claims he had no idea his people would do anything like that, or were capable of it. . Apparently having not heard of the Proud Boys who he invited to the event, and must have slept through the debate where they were an issue.
Incompetent, or intentional in providing security, his actions were inexcusable to fan the flames at that rally.
Events in the summer are irrelevant. Address the issue here and now.
Events in the summer were in cities without the resources the federal government has to provide adequate security . Those events occurred within 24 hours of the police actions that triggered them. Much less time to prepare.
I also do not remember the mayors planning any of those protest events or speaking at them urging "strong" action and directing the crowds onto the streets.
Yes there was very little I see as parallel that is relevant here.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 16:14:17 GMT -6
It's also amusing the media who spent all summer simultaneously dismissing and rationalizing violence is suddenly shocked by violence. The media would have a long way to go to dismiss or rationalize this event. Summer events were much easier to understand. What exactly do you mean? |
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Post by sweep on Jan 8, 2021 16:31:14 GMT -6
So the summer riots were "spontaneous protests" ? Seems odd someone would show up at a predetermined time to loot a Macy's out of concern over policing policies. It appears to me it was more like a free for all, perpetrated by lawless clowns who used mob numbers to shield themselves from prosecution. In fact I didn't see a lot of relevant protesting going on in either the summer incidents or this weeks nonsense. Why you can't see a parallel is amusing, and sort par for your usual blind dismissal of the obvious. Thanks for the head shaker, I needed a good laugh today. The Capitol incursion was result of an event scheduled for weeks.
Thank you for re-defining the term spontaneous. I now understand there is a "weeks" litmus test involved. Now you can go about re-defining protest to include burning, looting, assailing innocent citizens, and pillaging anything and everything. Are you really this stupid ? |
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Post by sweep on Jan 8, 2021 16:35:30 GMT -6
It's also amusing the media who spent all summer simultaneously dismissing and rationalizing violence is suddenly shocked by violence. Summer events were much easier to understand. Oh yes stealing shoes and iPhones has a clear and direct connection to public policy. How could I have been so stupid ? |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 17:53:16 GMT -6
Nobody defends the looters.
I am pointing out this planned Capitol breach is far different than those opportunistic criminals acting. Pre-planned.
I saw no mayors inciting violence this summer.
You really see this as similar? Justified action?
Those rioters in the Senate chambers with zip tie restraints just happened to have them?
Just overcame by anger spontaneously and happened to be prepared?
Just happened to have spoken about it in advance on social media?
Those home made bombs perhaps 2nd Amendment protected?
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