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Post by sweep on Jan 8, 2021 18:11:32 GMT -6
Nobody defends the looters. Oh I must have misunderstood when you referred to the riots as "spontaneous protests". |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 19:14:12 GMT -6
Nobody defends the looters. Oh I must have misunderstood when you referred to the riots as "spontaneous protests". The protests were spontaneous, and therefore poor planned, government relatively unprepared. The looting occurred well after the protest events were done. NOT as an extension of them urged by the speakers at the event. You did not misunderstand my statement. You are refusing to assign responsibility to the President planning an event to produce "wild things" and failing to plan security, even encouraging the march on the Capitol. True or false? |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 8, 2021 19:25:08 GMT -6
The woman who was shot was unarmed, so we know she needs to be immediately elevated to sainthood Since it matters so much to you that a death ended a good life or one you do not value, what was the moral deficit of the police officer, a military veteran doing his job, struck by a fire extinguisher who died at the hand of the extremists? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 8, 2021 20:30:19 GMT -6
Obviously the person who did that should be punished appropriately and I don't know and don't have the slightest care the skin color of the assailant or the victim. Unlike so many these days, I have certain firm principles that are not wrapped up in a mania about skin pigment
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 8, 2021 20:34:38 GMT -6
What will happen is politicized maniacs on both sides will exercise their creativity in explaining to us why it was that THEIR side's riot was excusable while the OTHER side's riot was the worst thing in the history of the world. Boy do I hate being right all the time. 00 steps in immediately exactly as I foresaw |
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Post by halftime on Jan 9, 2021 4:48:33 GMT -6
Oh I must have misunderstood when you referred to the riots as "spontaneous protests". You are refusing to assign responsibility to the President Where did I do that ? |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2021 7:55:39 GMT -6
You are refusing to assign responsibility to the President Where did I do that ? Glad to hear you agree with me. That is a big difference between summer rioting and this political event orchestrated by Trump. This planned event with his participation, his goal to prevent the count, and his failure to provide security has been my point in this thread. Comparison to summer lawlessness is a deflection. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2021 8:06:12 GMT -6
What will happen is politicized maniacs on both sides will exercise their creativity in explaining to us why it was that THEIR side's riot was excusable while the OTHER side's riot was the worst thing in the history of the world. Boy do I hate being right all the time. 00 steps in immediately exactly as I foresaw Where exactly do I say anything defending the summer property looting and lawless behavior? Or exaggerate this events historic significance? I do understand and defend the lawful demonstrations. I'll also defend a large number of Trump supporters at the rally, and have made the point here how the rally, and it's motivation and organization, linked directly to the resulting violence was different. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2021 10:24:26 GMT -6
The Capitol incursion was result of an event scheduled for weeks. Thank you for re-defining the term spontaneous. I now understand there is a "weeks" litmus test involved. Now you can go about re-defining protest .... No redefinition. Just recognition that the summer events were immediate emotional reaction to events occurring in some cases literally the day before. NOT similar to this event.
There was protest and there was unlawful aftermath to protest in both cases. In this case the "protest" was orchestrated and amplified over weeks by action by the President largely based on false claims of massive voter fraud, and planning by him of the event. It's harder to separate the two in this case when the President as part of the event encourages the unlawful actions, and fails to prevent it with his power to marshal security forces (evidenced early when BLM protests interfered with his photo op). Not to mention actually encouraging it... That is quite a big difference.
Just looking at the security differences:
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 9, 2021 10:35:46 GMT -6
I understand that protesting is a big part of our nations history but when in Modern history has it ever helped anything?
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2021 10:47:19 GMT -6
The planned violence at the Capitol may not be over.
It will not be directly linked to the rally, but will be linked to the President. At least to his rhetoric, if not his negligent, or wilful encouragement of action by the "good people" he has included in his orbit.
He has exploited many of his followers and made little or no effort to discourage the Qanon and racist elements who have so strongly supported them. "They like me" he said in the debate as he avoided criticism of them.
Can't be bad?
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2021 10:58:32 GMT -6
I understand that protesting is a big part of our nations history but when in Modern history has it ever helped anything? There is reason to think it has. But certainly the record is mixed.
I think the major thing in the modern era you may overlook is the protest in the 50's and 60's regarding race, ranging from sit in demonstrations in restaurants to MLK marches.
I witnessed the end of that era of protest. And lived through the Vietnam era. Protest probably helped end that war in Vietnam. Protest both by anti-war activists, and by those urging we either get out or do it right.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 9, 2021 11:11:52 GMT -6
Well some of those protests while still in the "modern" time frame are now pushing 75 years old.. Any large protest from either side is just not going to work anymore.. You have social media riling people up.. You have people live streaming everything which makes people play to the cameras.. I know its constitutional but we have seen the shift in the last 5 years the "bad apples make a peaceful protest impossible
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 9, 2021 11:29:53 GMT -6
Wonder what's the total damage caused by the trumpets relative to the blm protests. Doubt it reaches 1%. Maybe not 0.1%
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Post by bsutony on Jan 9, 2021 14:25:25 GMT -6
Oh I must have misunderstood when you referred to the riots as "spontaneous protests". The protests were spontaneous, and therefore poor planned, government relatively unprepared. The looting occurred well after the protest events were done. NOT as an extension of them urged by the speakers at the event. You did not misunderstand my statement. You are refusing to assign responsibility to the President planning an event to produce "wild things" and failing to plan security, even encouraging the march on the Capitol. True or false? Isn't the mayor in charge of security at the Capitol? |
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