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Post by chirpchirpcards on Feb 24, 2022 8:46:26 GMT -6
Putin to invade Ukraine. I haven't really heard, does he plan on stopping there? What is the end game here?
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Feb 24, 2022 9:51:43 GMT -6
I heard an interesting analysis the other day. The media likes to paint Putin as having a desire to return to the glory days of the Soviet Union, even though he has denounced the "totalitarianism" of communism in past comments.
What he's really after is the return of the Russian Empire of the 1800s. Ukraine at that time was fractured, with some regions aligning with Russia (including the regions that he is occupying now). Lenin brought the totality of Ukraine into the USSR after the revolution, but after the breakup of the USSR in 1991, those same areas still aligned more with Russia than Ukraine. He sees those areas as traditionally Russian, and believes he's just bringing them back into the fold. He's also reaching the end of his political career, and looking to establish his legacy as the man that restored Russia, not the Soviet Union.
Russia has occupied those areas ever since the breakup, just not openly. The invasion essentially just meant they were able to put on their uniforms.
This has also placed China in a tough spot. They want to align with the rest of the world in condemning the invasion, but that would paint them as hypocrites due to their threats toward Taiwan and crackdown on Hong Kong. So they've largely stayed silent.
Meanwhile, our Blunderer-in-Chief... well, God only knows what he's going to do. I find it interesting that the left still somehow blame Trump, even though Putin didn't do crap while Trump was in office.
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Post by coastalcard on Feb 24, 2022 10:09:36 GMT -6
Biden DID crack down on the ability of Russian elite to buy gaudy baubles while traveling abroad.
Sadly for Ukraine, this did not prevent the invasion of tanks and mortar fire.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2022 10:53:36 GMT -6
I heard an interesting analysis the other day. The media likes to paint Putin as having a desire to return to the glory days of the Soviet Union, even though he has denounced the "totalitarianism" of communism in past comments. What he's really after is the return of the Russian Empire of the 1800s. Ukraine at that time was fractured, with some regions aligning with Russia (including the regions that he is occupying now). Lenin brought the totality of Ukraine into the USSR after the revolution, but after the breakup of the USSR in 1991, those same areas still aligned more with Russia than Ukraine. He sees those areas as traditionally Russian, and believes he's just bringing them back into the fold. He's also reaching the end of his political career, and looking to establish his legacy as the man that restored Russia, not the Soviet Union. Russia has occupied those areas ever since the breakup, just not openly. The invasion essentially just meant they were able to put on their uniforms. This has also placed China in a tough spot. They want to align with the rest of the world in condemning the invasion, but that would paint them as hypocrites due to their threats toward Taiwan and crackdown on Hong Kong. So they've largely stayed silent. Meanwhile, our Blunderer-in-Chief... well, God only knows what he's going to do. I find it interesting that the left still somehow blame Trump, even though Putin didn't do crap while Trump was in office. Good analysis.
I doubt the part that Trump would have somehow stopped this move. Looks like we are doing pretty much what we can without forcing a military confrontation. And it's hard for me to see what he could have done while he was downplaying NATO.
Trump seems to think this border strategy of Putin is so brilliant, he probably would have invaded Canada and annexed Ontario before he stopped Putin and Russia. And then there's that border area in Mexico...
We needed something stronger than the reaction we had when Russia marched in and took Crimea. Putin logic that is that NATO is a threat, so he has to invade the neighbors who aren't in NATO. Sort of assumes he has a right to invade who he wants to invade.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 24, 2022 10:56:23 GMT -6
I heard an interesting analysis the other day. The media likes to paint Putin as having a desire to return to the glory days of the Soviet Union, even though he has denounced the "totalitarianism" of communism in past comments. What he's really after is the return of the Russian Empire of the 1800s. Ukraine at that time was fractured, with some regions aligning with Russia (including the regions that he is occupying now). Lenin brought the totality of Ukraine into the USSR after the revolution, but after the breakup of the USSR in 1991, those same areas still aligned more with Russia than Ukraine. He sees those areas as traditionally Russian, and believes he's just bringing them back into the fold. He's also reaching the end of his political career, and looking to establish his legacy as the man that restored Russia, not the Soviet Union. Russia has occupied those areas ever since the breakup, just not openly. The invasion essentially just meant they were able to put on their uniforms. This has also placed China in a tough spot. They want to align with the rest of the world in condemning the invasion, but that would paint them as hypocrites due to their threats toward Taiwan and crackdown on Hong Kong. So they've largely stayed silent. Meanwhile, our Blunderer-in-Chief... well, God only knows what he's going to do. I find it interesting that the left still somehow blame Trump, even though Putin didn't do crap while Trump was in office. |
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2022 10:59:00 GMT -6
Biden DID crack down on the ability of Russian elite to buy gaudy baubles while traveling abroad. Sadly for Ukraine, this did not prevent the invasion of tanks and mortar fire. Sadly, Ukraine was not admitted into NATO due to fear of confronting Russia. Sadly for Ukraine the US and the rest of the world let Russia seize Crimea, and has tacitly allowed the Republics in Ukraine to create a false flag operation funded by Russia, which is now his pretext to justify this incursion.
Putin and Russia did sign an international agreement to honor Ukraine borders, now ignoring that.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2022 11:03:56 GMT -6
There is other analysis out there very similar. Both liberal and conservative. The article points out there are lot of non Trump loyalists in the GOP who are talking sense. The Trump group and their position is not like any GOP foreign policy position I can remember.
It's more like American isolationism and hesitation to act and outright English appeasement of Hitler in Europe before WWII. |
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Post by sweep on Feb 24, 2022 11:10:28 GMT -6
It's more like American isolationism and hesitation to act and outright English appeasement of Hitler in Europe before WWII. No it's more like addressing geopolitical issues before they blow-up into unavoidable confrontations. You are an idiot on every subject. |
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Post by sweep on Feb 24, 2022 11:25:47 GMT -6
Biden DID crack down on the ability of Russian elite to buy gaudy baubles while traveling abroad. Sadly for Ukraine, this did not prevent the invasion of tanks and mortar fire. Sadly for Ukraine the US and the rest of the world let Russia seize Crimea And who were the President, Vice President and Secretary of State when that happened ? |
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Feb 24, 2022 12:01:17 GMT -6
You mean Trump actually wanted Ukraine to PAY for weapons? And for NATO countries to pony up the money they'd promised as part of the charter? Man, the NERVE of that guy! |
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2022 12:45:05 GMT -6
Sadly for Ukraine the US and the rest of the world let Russia seize Crimea And who was President, Vice President and Secretary of State when that happened ? I don't really care, Most of the world overlooked the Putin motives in lurkin's analysis then, that is really unfortunate. Most likely the wise heads saw this day coming but in the moment, just looked the other way and kicked the can down the road, with the cover of trusting the diplomatic word of Putin and the Russians. MAYBE that was the best decision with the knowledge they had?
In any case, there was never the Trump toadyism and bromance with Putin anywhere in Europe or in the US.
Maybe you can explain why that makes sense, I don't get it.
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Post by sweep on Feb 24, 2022 13:16:22 GMT -6
And who was President, Vice President and Secretary of State when that happened ? I don't really care, Most of the world overlooked the Putin motives in lurkin's analysis then, that is really unfortunate. Most likely the wise heads saw this day coming but in the moment, just looked the other way and kicked the can down the road, with the cover of trusting the diplomatic word of Putin and the Russians. MAYBE that was the best decision with the knowledge they had?
In any case, there was never the Trump toadyism and bromance with Putin anywhere in Europe or in the US.
Maybe you can explain why that makes sense, I don't get it.
I was going to make a smart ass remark, but to be honest your reply is so stupid it just sort of stands on its own. No comment required................ |
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Post by cardfan on Feb 24, 2022 14:02:58 GMT -6
Bottom line, it’s a mess.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Feb 24, 2022 14:16:10 GMT -6
NATO should've allowed Ukraine membership, but that's past now.
Belarus is already a de facto part of the new Russian Empire, allowing Russian forces to move through as they wish, and the Belorussian (?) military taking orders from Moscow.
Moldova will likely be next. But then they bump up against NATO members in Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland, along with the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. So their aggression will likely be self-limiting on that front.
Interestingly, Finland and Sweden are not part of NATO. I wouldn't be surprised if that changes in the near future. Not that I think Russia would invade them, they have little strategic or economic value, but the Finns and Swedes have got to be getting a little nervous.
Ukraine is a fairly rich country with vast agriculture and natural resources, plus an established Black Sea port at Odessa, which is important for the Russian fleet. Its economy has been steadily improving for several years, and they have an emerging military industrial complex, and was about to become the 6th largest producer of arms in the world, with new contracts that were recently signed.
You can see why Putin is so interested in Ukraine.
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Post by villagepub on Feb 25, 2022 7:39:29 GMT -6
I heard an interesting analysis the other day. The media likes to paint Putin as having a desire to return to the glory days of the Soviet Union, even though he has denounced the "totalitarianism" of communism in past comments. What he's really after is the return of the Russian Empire of the 1800s. Ukraine at that time was fractured, with some regions aligning with Russia (including the regions that he is occupying now). Lenin brought the totality of Ukraine into the USSR after the revolution, but after the breakup of the USSR in 1991, those same areas still aligned more with Russia than Ukraine. He sees those areas as traditionally Russian, and believes he's just bringing them back into the fold. He's also reaching the end of his political career, and looking to establish his legacy as the man that restored Russia, not the Soviet Union. Russia has occupied those areas ever since the breakup, just not openly. The invasion essentially just meant they were able to put on their uniforms. This has also placed China in a tough spot. They want to align with the rest of the world in condemning the invasion, but that would paint them as hypocrites due to their threats toward Taiwan and crackdown on Hong Kong. So they've largely stayed silent. Meanwhile, our Blunderer-in-Chief... well, God only knows what he's going to do. I find it interesting that the left still somehow blame Trump, even though Putin didn't do crap while Trump was in office. In the 1800s, Russia also had parts of Poland, Slovakia, Romania, and disputed areas of Finland. Should they be allowed to take back those territories from those current sovereign states? |
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