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Post by 00hmh on Oct 24, 2023 12:16:41 GMT -6
preemptively tying yourself financially to a coach in the event that he fails is clearly a stupid idea. It seems acceptable to you because it is the conventional wisdom...which you worship as holy writ. It's a terrible idea that bites schools in the ass over and over and over again. It balances out real risk. And remember it helps when the coach succeeds. Besides the market creates this. Coaches contrary to your nutty belief value job security and would want higher salary if they did not have some. |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 24, 2023 12:58:45 GMT -6
Ah, the science of recruiting... Well we hear and say we could take the bench of "whatever" and they would be stars for us. Its really not true fringe big ten players do not come to the MAC and become instant stars but MAC starts typically go and do well pretty well transfering up |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 24, 2023 13:01:09 GMT -6
Now if you take a big 10 player who has played had success and really contributed they do the same or more at tge mac level. Just not many of those guys dropping down
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Post by sdacardinal on Oct 24, 2023 14:26:03 GMT -6
I think the injued WR from Colorado was contributing and showed promise. Not sure that transfering from Colorado was a step down for him
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 24, 2023 15:16:35 GMT -6
Ah, the science of recruiting... Well we hear and say we could take the bench of "whatever" and they would be stars for us. Its really not true fringe big ten players do not come to the MAC and become instant stars but MAC starts typically go and do well pretty well transfering up The difference in talent is hard to measure and cardfan is on it about motivation and moving up has to give a kid a boost. I'll take the great kid moving up, but also take all those B10 kids, you're going to get something and less likely to whiff on one. Not like we don't have some marginal talents... |
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 24, 2023 17:43:17 GMT -6
preemptively tying yourself financially to a coach in the event that he fails is clearly a stupid idea. It seems acceptable to you because it is the conventional wisdom...which you worship as holy writ. It's a terrible idea that bites schools in the ass over and over and over again. It balances out real risk. And remember it helps when the coach succeeds. Besides the market creates this. Coaches contrary to your nutty belief value job security and would want higher salary if they did not have some. Yeah, nutty. On the other hand it’s super smart to have an endless series of football and basketball coaches we end up wanting to get rid of, but have to keep additional years because we can’t afford the buyouts we agreed to. We just HAVE to keep doing it that way for…uh…reasons |
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Post by david75bsu on Oct 24, 2023 18:42:39 GMT -6
preemptively tying yourself financially to a coach in the event that he fails is clearly a stupid idea. It seems acceptable to you because it is the conventional wisdom...which you worship as holy writ. It's a terrible idea that bites schools in the ass over and over and over again. It balances out real risk. And remember it helps when the coach succeeds. Besides the market creates this. Coaches contrary to your nutty belief value job security and would want higher salary if they did not have some. Sorry, sounds like chicken shit to me. If you feel you’re good, you don’t need a contract. They’ll keep you and reward you, as well as other opportunities will arise to help you meet your goals. Contracts are for the weak at heart! I never worried, I knew I knew my job well, showed success, and could always quickly find another job if needed. Contracts are for sissies. |
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Post by david75bsu on Oct 24, 2023 18:51:58 GMT -6
Another point about contracts at the mid-major level. Ball State alum Brady Hoke up and packed his bags and left Ball U so fast and didn’t look back. That contract didn’t stop him from leaving! Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. Used to be a hand shake was a promise you would not break, no even a signed contract is worthless! If you make a promise, sign a contract, whatever - your word should be worth something!
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 24, 2023 19:22:07 GMT -6
Another point about contracts at the mid-major level. Ball State alum Brady Hoke up and packed his bags and left Ball U so fast and didn’t look back. That contract didn’t stop him from leaving! Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. Used to be a hand shake was a promise you would not break, no even a signed contract is worthless! If you make a promise, sign a contract, whatever - your word should be worth something! Well it was worth something if we got a buyout.
Every employment is a contract. The writing is sometime not necessary. Depending in part on whether the parties want to bind one another to terms of a specific time more than a year. You in each job exchanged binding promises with your employer. The question is what are the terms. Brady and BSU mutually promised a number of years, but the contract allowed a buyout. He promised that and if he left early had to pay. If BSU found someone they wanted they could buy him out.
I don't know how many longer term commitments like that you made, at a salary making you the most highly paid employee at the company, or anything else about the nature of your career, or what the market was like for employment in your field, how easy it would be to replace you or you to find other work, or at what stage in your career you might have been and gotten a better offer and left. Certainly you may have gone to an employer and asked for a raise, even left if you didn't get it. I am sure you were rational, all things considered.
However, I doubt your case extends well to coaching contracts. Even in business, such contracts are common in high paid executive jobs. I don't know whether you were ever thrown onto the job market when a contract was summarily terminated. How long you could afford to get the next job. Or, how many staff you brought with you with their families, and and were responsible for, and many other things I suspect were different.
There aren't so many jobs with those issues outside coaching. I've had several kinds of employment, regularly short term consulting, but some with contracts limiting my options and those of the employer.
But, whatever, I do know that in college coaching written multiyear contracts in FB and BB are the norm, with buyout clauses. It protects both parties to a degree. Coaches are very reluctant (contrary to the General's theory) to take a job without guarantees, and rarely, if ever, does it happen.
Both sides bargain for these terms for all the reasons above.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 24, 2023 20:23:17 GMT -6
If your getting a buyout that covers the contract who gives a shit. It means you have been good. Ive advocated making contracts have much higher buyouts so if we do land a great coach we can use that buyout number to help sign a better coach... If a P5 wants a G5 coach they are going to pay it
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Post by lmills72 on Oct 24, 2023 20:55:32 GMT -6
In theory this idea of a big buyout seems appealing, but when has it really mattered for us?
Who was the last coach who left who had to have their contract bought out, and to what use did we put that buyout? Did it even amount to a hill of beans when up against the overwhelming deficit run by the program?
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 24, 2023 21:52:00 GMT -6
If your getting a buyout that covers the contract who gives a shit. It means you have been good. Ive advocated making contracts have much higher buyouts so if we do land a great coach we can use that buyout number to help sign a better coach... If a P5 wants a G5 coach they are going to pay it Hiring the good one to a longer term contract is the trick. But this is good Plan B. Money is the game. But we're not in it. |
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Post by bsu0 on Oct 25, 2023 14:32:35 GMT -6
Bobby Bowden on lifetime contracts,"Makes no difference, they'll just declare you dead and hire someone else!"
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 25, 2023 15:07:58 GMT -6
In theory this idea of a big buyout seems appealing, but when has it really mattered for us? Who was the last coach who left who had to have their contract bought out, and to what use did we put that buyout? Did it even amount to a hill of beans when up against the overwhelming deficit run by the program? That part of the plan where we hire somebody who is good at a high salary and then have money to get a good replacement is short circuited when you hire on a shoestring and then have a shoestring to hire a replacement...
Rick Majerus left and we made a good deal to get Hunsaker. Then we blew it by firing him...
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Post by cardfan on Oct 25, 2023 16:31:03 GMT -6
In theory this idea of a big buyout seems appealing, but when has it really mattered for us? Who was the last coach who left who had to have their contract bought out, and to what use did we put that buyout? Did it even amount to a hill of beans when up against the overwhelming deficit run by the program? That part of the plan where we hire somebody who is good at a high salary and then have money to get a good replacement is short circuited when you hire on a shoestring and then have a shoestring to hire a replacement...
Rick Majerus left and we made a good deal to get Hunsaker. Then we blew it by firing him...
Threw Hunsaker to the wolves to reduce the ncaa penalty. At a bigger name school what we’d done would have been small potatoes. NCAA was over the top punitive toward us. Worthen was willi To sacrifice Hunsaker. Did we even offer up like a10 game suspension or anything like that? Dick loved coaching at Bsu. Of course today it’s just NIL…. |
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