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Post by bsu0 on Feb 1, 2016 17:47:22 GMT -6
General, watch out. I have known ''TheKid'' over forty years and of all the names I heard him called I do not remember ''gentleman'' as one of them.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 1, 2016 18:16:47 GMT -6
Your reasoning is not unsound, but that is a loser mentality. But I think you've hit the nail right on the head as to why weak and mediocre coaches start weak and mediocre and stay weak and mediocre. They run up against this catch-22 at it simply whips them. Superior coaches, on the other hand, come right in (a la Rick Majerus) and take a sledgehammer to that whole paradigm. They get the players they need because they are superior, and they are superior because they get the players they need.
This goes back to how I showed that successful coaches are always (with the exception of Guy Lewis) successful early at every coaching stop they make, and why it's not realistic that, by showing "patience", you can expect to see an unsuccessful coach become successful.
If Whitford can't recruit a championship quality front line...well, that's fine. The MAC, and the world, needs also-rans too. In fact, by definition, there has to be more also-rans than championship programs. Keith Dambrot and coaches of that caliber will handle the championship end of things.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 1, 2016 19:05:22 GMT -6
Well Kid, I can't think of anything at the bookstore that I would really need or want. Instead I would suggest loser picks up the tab after a mutual drinking bout prior to a home game of 2017-18 season. A long time from now, to be sure, but it will take until the end of the 2016-17 season to determine the bet for certain...unless one party wants to concede earlier.
So, to specify the bet, I say BSU will not be in the top 100 of the Kenpom ratings at the end of next season. Although, if we crack the top 100 at any point during the season, I will probably be in the mood to buy drinks then and there.
The "threats" to my bet are:
1) Whitford lands an impact big this spring. Since we are currently recruiting the likes of the Simon JUCO kid, I judge this threat as very unlikely. 2) Teague comes up big. I have long hoped for this, but the redshirt was a real bucket of cold water on those hopes. 3) We get such a huge backcourt/wing talent that he overcomes the need for a high-quality front line. Well....Bonzi Wells was not good enough to do this and he was the 11th pick in the draft and had a 10-year NBA career...so you tell me how likely that is.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2016 19:15:08 GMT -6
By the way, 8-11. St. Peter's u is now recruiting Simon....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 20:20:21 GMT -6
I'm trying to decide if these next two games indicate we are a middle of the pack team .....or we slide down to back markers.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2016 20:26:18 GMT -6
I'm trying to decide if these next two games indicate we are a middle of the pack team .....or we slide down to back markers. If the turnovers and poor defense continue we slide back down to bottom feeders. If we take care of the basketball and find some toughness defensively we'll split the two and still be somewhat meh.
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Post by BSU Card Fan in AZ on Feb 1, 2016 20:59:31 GMT -6
Guys, I think theses guys are working hard to improve their situation. How about we just get behind our team. Kinda like fans might do.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2016 21:07:15 GMT -6
Or critique their chances. Kinda like fans might do. No one said they weren't working hard. They work very hard. But it's a d1 basketball team and results are expected, not participation ribbons.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 1, 2016 21:19:19 GMT -6
"Lets say playing for a mac championship is a goal how long do we give a coach to achieve this goal" Playing for or winning it? A very worthy goal that all teams have but only a handful achieve. A lot of firings along the way I assume. Playing for or at least being strongly in the conversation.
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Post by BSU Card Fan in AZ on Feb 2, 2016 9:05:33 GMT -6
Or critique their chances. Kinda like fans might do. No one said they weren't working hard. They work very hard. But it's a d1 basketball team and results are expected, not participation ribbons. I know what u r saying. I'm just seeing that this team, minus the star recruit, wasn't picked by most to be any better than mid pack, if that. They have have exceeded most expectations. Just giving the group credit, that's all. The deficiencies noted have always been there and most likely continue this year. There has been improvement. Hopefully some more improvement as we close out the year and maybe a tourney upset. We could be dangerous but only if the threes are falling.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 2, 2016 9:22:57 GMT -6
I don't disagree with what you're saying. I do think getting all those wins vs inferior competition led to a bit of s false sense of the quality of the team. It's pretty clear we have a ways to go. Still hoping for a Mac record around .500. I thought we might only win 4 or 5, so the arrow is starting to point up.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 2, 2016 9:46:03 GMT -6
Or critique their chances. Kinda like fans might do. No one said they weren't working hard. They work very hard. But it's a d1 basketball team and results are expected, not participation ribbons. I know what u r saying. I'm just seeing that this team, minus the star recruit, wasn't picked by most to be any better than mid pack, if that. They have have exceeded most expectations. Just giving the group credit, that's all. The deficiencies noted have always been there and most likely continue this year. There has been improvement. Hopefully some more improvement as we close out the year and maybe a tourney upset. We could be dangerous but only if the threes are falling. We are better but we are going to end up midpack exactly where you say most picked us to be so I am not quite sure we have really exceeded any expactations. After last year Im ok with mid pack this year but I have asked the question before and everyone skirted the answer. How long do we wait before we demand something better than being mid-pack? Our expactations are so low that it seems as if Mid-Pack has became acceptable
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Post by cardfan on Feb 2, 2016 9:54:15 GMT -6
We'd better be competing for a championship next year is what I'm saying. It just doesn't/shouldn't take that long to rebuild a basketball program if you're a good coach.
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Post by thebsukid on Feb 2, 2016 11:34:47 GMT -6
BSU 0 has a major point !!!
General, sounds like a good bet where we both win at Scotty's !!! You're on brother.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 2, 2016 15:23:05 GMT -6
We are better but we are going to end up midpack exactly where you say most picked us to be so I am not quite sure we have really exceeded any expactations. I don't know, kid was treated as pretty extreme to pick 15 wins. I don't know anyone who predicted 18 or 19, and if we include the MAC tourney, I think we'll reach that. I have always said I am more concerned about how we are playing with what we have, and what the coach is doing and how he does it, even more than just some win target. Injuries, academics and so on can be beyond control. We had a touch of that last year, knock on wood, not this year. Nobody long term wants us in the middle, although it is better to be there than the bottom. The idea some have that it is easy for a good coach to get to the top in 3 or 4 years is a question where I disagree about 3 years for sure. I do "expect" us to be a notch or two above average next year, something like top 3 or 4. If that counts as competing for the title, OK, but I want continued improvement and a Program built where the next coach doesn't have to do what this one has had to. Recruiting to a failed program and rebuilding it is a lot harder than starting with a decent Program and history.
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