Colts

Unifying isn't a word I had heard. Protest usually is not. Lesson from the 60's...

Don't think Donald's attempts at bonding with his base on this is quite the ticket either.

Among players it clearly is unifying. I thought you meant before this.

Not sure about participated, but most supported the players who protested, and not our fearless Chief who called for their firing. I get that part.

The protesters will even say it's not about the flag acknowledge it's a tough call. The Donald says it simple.

But. Where was he when brave men went to war in his generation? He talks about sacrifice, had his chances, never made one in his life. Mocks John McCain, waves the flag for votes.

Tell me the part about how the issues here are clear cut.

It's not nebulous at all, and if anything is clear to me it is that an attempt to honor service is appropriate. Don't lecture me about service, or patriotism. I served.

Donald did not. He did not protest a war he claims he opposed. I could respect that. He didn't, says he had more important things to do.

Service? He served himself. If you think those things are nebulous criticism, if you think his disrespect of those who have served is not clear in his treatment of McCain and others who have sacrificed, if you don't get that, if you think it is not clear, I can't agree.

Perhaps you served as I did, and we both appreciate the anthem before a game which has roots in supporting those who serve in war, but many who served also understand protest, and they understand why some players are now protesting. If you don't understand that and don't understand why most players support the protesters who are on their team, even if they might not participate themselves and stand with them against call to fire them, then you just don't understand something important.

I see both sides. Don't think these issues are at all clear.

Why isn't my answer clear enough? I don't understand.

Why don't you just show by contrast what a clear answer would be, put something on the table you believe in?

Tell us why the flag and anthem mean so much to you? And, why the protest is so difficult for you to understand?

The idea of all standing for the anthem is to express the idea we are all united in a cause. It became part of our culture to do that in WWI when people stood to support the war effort.

This ideal is not the gesture of standing but about the unity for which the gesture stands.

When you and I stand it may just be show what is universal respect for those who have sacrificed, a memorial, which is often how Trump rhetorically expresses it, which is really part of the message. Or it may be much more generally to stand for all the good things our nation does stand for. Neither was the original idea.

Perhaps now it is a vague patriotic symbol with less specific message. A much weaker "unity." But the idea that all Americans MUST speak the same ideas or agree on all things is not what the Anthem custom stands for, nor should it. The protestors are saying there is not unity on what for them are important issues. Many are conflicted and feel a dramatic and visible protest is important speech. They want, whether it works or it is "a shitty way" to do it or not to make an important point.

So we have two conflicting American values involving speech. To support what is good, and to speak out in dissent when we see what is not good. That just is not a simple matter to judge.

You would prefer they protest a different way, and I understand that one.

OTOH, I could see us dispensing entirely with the Anthem before sporting events. Does it really do what that anthem in WWI, WWII did, to express uniform support for a cause in a wartime era?   Candidly, a rabid fan with beer in hand waiting to shout "Play Ball" has always been my strongest impression of the custom, not some solemn patriotic moment making all think about how together we stand for something. Or how our troops involved in foreign wars need to be remembered.

My war was not universally supported. The division prompted many to say "America, love it or leave it." The dissenters were right to oppose that war. I am not ready to join Trump's war against everyone who is "not one of us," and to force everyone to fear speaking out against him or to be fired. He's hijacking a symbol and using it to inflame his base, to get applause and cheers at a rally. Shame on him.

These black athletes see disturbing things in society and fear that racial equality is threatened in America. Trump exploits different and diverse fears by his core encouraging them that their particular beliefs only are the "good" for which we stand during the anthem. I don't think that is our ideal, and think Trump goes way too far, both in his rhetoric which often suggests that diversity in race, religion, national identity is somehow a a bad thing, and in this case way too far in the idea that dissenters should be silenced and punished. That's why those athletes who are not protestors and the league support their team mates.

Trump is not representing Republican belief, it is not a Republican idea. Lincoln's war freed slaves. Ike was a war hero, and Ike supported Truman's steps to integrate our military and it was he who commanded our national guard in '54 that marched against a state governor to integrate schools.

Trump wants his supporters to stand together, clearly that is not a national consensus.   But, worse, he adds an element of advocating punishing,  and of tearing down those who don't stand with him. He disrespects the dissenters and never acknowledges the message they are trying to send.

Our tradition allows the White Supremacists to march in Charlotte, but NOT to engage in violence in their "protest." Trump says those protestors are good people, doesn't say that about the dissenters who are black football players. Taking a knee is far more respectful in my mind of our traditions, far less a concern about respect for America and division.