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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 10:17:34 GMT -6
South Alabama terminated the contract of Matthew Graves yesterday, either he or Darnell Archie would make an excellent assistant at Ball State.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 9, 2018 10:32:07 GMT -6
South Alabama terminated the contract of Matthew Graves yesterday, either he or Darnell Archie would make an excellent assistant at Ball State. First thing I thought of. Graves was a candidate with whit was hired. Both guys you mentioned would be really good to have. Well known Indiana guys. Something tells me at least one of them will end up back at butler. Graves should not have taken the S Alabama job. Butler way doesn’t translate down there.
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Post by redbirdman on Mar 9, 2018 10:41:41 GMT -6
So 00hmh do you agree with WMU's Hawkins give the big players in the MAC at least 2 full yrs before you judge them?
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2018 10:42:06 GMT -6
UJ, excellent. Your point that whit just doesn’t want to recruit bigs is how I feel as well. For whatever reason he doesn’t appear to want a strong, physical presence down low. He thinks he can with softer, skilled guys, and so far that hasn’t worked out for him. I agree with all of your post. It seems we can only go so far with how Whitford wants to play. Every year we’ve been up and down. Tall peaks and deep valleys. Always a roster issue. Seniors he suddenly buries. Bigs who don’t always come to play. Unable to make plays in the big moments in the big games. (No, beating Teams at the buzzer in December is not what the big big games truly are). The big moments are the last two minutes of the wmu game, the niu game, the Kent game. When it comes time to make our mark we can’t do it. The “culture” of the program is, well, a lack of mental and physical toughness and discipline in the big moment. When the coach is more interested in process than winning, that’s what you end up with. I agree that the bigger problem is getting the tough play at the end of games, not necessarily presence down low. I disagree that the good games that you recognize as the high points somehow don't count as big. Disagree a little about seniors, he played seniors Bo and Franko, and correctly benched Davis, I don't think that was a mistake. Also tried to get more out of Weber than actually did. Played Sellers who performed well overall but none of these guys was ever the assertive leader. That could be the real recruiting lack. Not sure we have had the senior leaders where you can get a lot out of them. The first years he played who he had, including Kamikazi and tried to ride others, but we didn't really have senior stars or senior leaders.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2018 10:47:28 GMT -6
UJ, excellent. Unable to make plays in the big moments in the big games. (No, beating Teams at the buzzer in December is not what the big big games truly are). The big moments are the last two minutes of the wmu game, the niu game, the Kent game. When it comes time to make our mark we can’t do it. The “culture” of the program is, well, a lack of mental and physical toughness and discipline in the big moment. When the coach is more interested in process than winning, that’s what you end up with. This year's failure of the senior class was a big part of the problem on the mental, physical toughness angle. So in a way the two issues are really linked. This was Whit's first senior class and if there is a theme in recruiting results up to now it may be lack of "star" power and leadership, despite recruiting overall good talent each year. I'll not call that a failure necessarily, you can go a long way with depth of talent and overcome that. Leadership is a key but, the two issues of lacking senior leadership and lacking depth combined this year. Besides, as I watched this game and we played pretty hard, just not so smart at times. THAT is a huge issue related to toughness, leadership and to depth. Leadership and mental toughness would certainly help overcome it. But. When you have no bench, it's hard to find that spark you need an also even just to pull a player when he is not performing. I also might turn your criticism of mental focus and lack of discipline a little more to fatigue and physical ability and less than you do to toughness or any lack of will to win. I think we really put a lot into the 6 game streak and responding to the gut shot of losing Tyler and Walker. It was more than just peaking too soon, it took a lot out of us to accomplish that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 10:48:21 GMT -6
I don't think either one of them will wind-up back at Butler. The only way they shake-up their current staff is if someone who is recruiting superstar becomes available. My guess is if Matta gets a new gig he will hires Graves. Not real sure where Archie will land.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 9, 2018 10:56:49 GMT -6
Point being, 00, we’ve generally seen the same up and down performance, sloppy and not smart play, and lack of toughness at times each of the last 3 years. Each year we’ve had a middle to late stretch where it looked like we were going to get something done, only to get nothing done. Not just talking this season. We’ve gone in and out and back into funks each year. Inconsistent in quality of play and in effort. We play great and then suddenly don’t care. Until a Whitford team doesn’t do that I’ll just expect them to do it again the next year. Here’s to hoping next season is when we break out of that.
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Post by reevo on Mar 9, 2018 11:53:09 GMT -6
UJ, excellent. Unable to make plays in the big moments in the big games. (No, beating Teams at the buzzer in December is not what the big big games truly are). The big moments are the last two minutes of the wmu game, the niu game, the Kent game. When it comes time to make our mark we can’t do it. The “culture” of the program is, well, a lack of mental and physical toughness and discipline in the big moment. When the coach is more interested in process than winning, that’s what you end up with. This year's failure of the senior class was a big part of the problem on the mental, physical toughness angle. So in a way the two issues are really linked. This was Whit's first senior class and if there is a theme in recruiting results up to now it may be lack of "star" power and leadership, despite recruiting overall good talent each year. I'll not call that a failure necessarily, you can go a long way with depth of talent and overcome that. Leadership is a key but, the two issues of lacking senior leadership and lacking depth combined this year. Besides, as I watched this game and we played pretty hard, just not so smart at times. THAT is a huge issue related to toughness, leadership and to depth. Leadership and mental toughness would certainly help overcome it. But. When you have no bench, it's hard to find that spark you need an also even just to pull a player when he is not performing. I also might turn your criticism of mental focus and lack of discipline a little more to fatigue and physical ability and less than you do to toughness or any lack of will to win. I think we really put a lot into the 6 game streak and responding to the gut shot of losing Tyler and Walker. It was more than just peaking too soon, it took a lot out of us to accomplish that. It is always something. I am tired of the conjecture! He was given a pass for the first 2 years though he had some pretty good players leave. Year 3 & 4, he builds himself a weak ass schedule and wins 20 games and still only wins 1 MAC tournament game and the apologist on this board are proclaiming Whitford the savior. Year 5 sees a team win 9 in a row, lose to Major programs by 39 & 24 points, upset a Notre Dame team we think is really good but ends up being an average Major team, lose 2 scholarship players but is able to win 7 of 8 Mac games and then turns around and loses 4 straight. Most programs would fire their head coach because the only thing consistent of the program is the inconsistency of the team. His teams are weak physically and they are soft mentally which mirror the man in charge. The MAC East is down yet we lose to a Kent State team 2 of 3 times and Akron figures out a way to get to the semi's with a brand new coach and a depleted roster and you all think Whitford is doing a good job? Life sucks and throws you curveballs all of the time. No one knows this better than my family after losing our 17 year old 3 years ago. You know what, it sucks and still sucks but I ended having the best year at work I ever had and 2 consecutive great years financially because I sucked it up. Did not use my boys loss as an excuse but buried myself into my work. I am tired of the asinine excuses. He needs to take responsibility for the collapse or get the f**k out!!
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2018 12:36:47 GMT -6
So 00hmh do you agree with WMU's Hawkins give the big players in the MAC at least 2 full yrs before you judge them? MAC big guys are rarely like Thompson from EMU. Physically talented, a lot of upside, ready to play early. Obviously, if you get a really good one, they can have impact earlier. Usually,come in with limited upside, or need time to develop physically, or lack skills. May never have skills or in some cases always be limited physically. So, often can have limited upside even if they develop, after two years are journeymen and not getting a lot better. Can't be sure they do that!
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Post by universityjim on Mar 9, 2018 12:52:56 GMT -6
Akron didn't make the semi finals. Eastern beat them 67-58.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 13:00:30 GMT -6
So 00hmh do you agree with WMU's Hawkins give the big players in the MAC at least 2 full yrs before you judge them? or in some cases always be limited physically. So, often can have limited upside even if they develop You just described every athlete in world history. Do you ever listen to yourself ?
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2018 13:04:28 GMT -6
Point being, 00, we’ve generally seen the same up and down performance, sloppy and not smart play, and lack of toughness at times each of the last 3 years. Each year we’ve had a middle to late stretch where it looked like we were going to get something done, only to get nothing done. Not just talking this season. We’ve gone in and out and back into funks each year. Inconsistent in quality of play and in effort. We play great and then suddenly don’t care. Until a Whitford team doesn’t do that I’ll just expect them to do it again the next year. Here’s to hoping next season is when we break out of that. "Don't care" seems awfully strong statement, unfair. Not sure this team as it took the floor in Cleveland (or last years, all year) had the potential to really expect them to be MAC champs. Just not enough talent due to injury and players lost this year. Could have been in the title as a long shot, but that was possible only had the seniors came through this year, and we had not lost Walker. Then, I would have given them a chance, but still not exactly a favorite to do the job. So not doing that is not "Don't care." When you are at that level, where you have good talent but required effort is so great, you are going to have some great play. And you're going to regress. "Don't care" is mind reading about player motive, and I reject that. I'd say the good play shows focus and intensity and playing at their peak. You have to care a lot to do that. Lack of ability to sustain, play at peak level every game has lots of reasons, chief one being players aren't perfect, players make mistakes, coaches make mistakes...not "Don't care."
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2018 13:06:09 GMT -6
or in some cases always be limited physically. So, often can have limited upside even if they develop You just described every athlete in world history. Do you ever listen to yourself ? Yeah, maybe, but at the MAC level you find a lot more big guys with physical limitation and skills deficit than you see guards and wings. That's what the question is.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 9, 2018 13:14:33 GMT -6
or in some cases always be limited physically. So, often can have limited upside even if they develop Do you ever listen to yourself ? He drifts in and out.
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Post by bsutrack on Mar 9, 2018 13:22:42 GMT -6
Akron didn't make the semi finals. Eastern beat them 67-58. Correct, my fault as I thought they were a sure thing being up 20 points with only about 12 minutes to go in the second half. Guess Groce isn't God's gift to MAC basketball coaching after all. I would still take him over Whitford if we could afford him.
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