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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 8:50:01 GMT -6
Give Cardinnc a little credit. He is much more up front than most that his reason for continuing to take $10 million of taxpayer and student money every year is so that he and a small group of his friends can continue to enjoy their chosen pastime. That's actually the same reason most football supporters have, but few admit it. bring hard working athletes to campus which might influence students in a positive way is good will with alumni. Oh yeah football athletes are always influencing other students in a positive way. The biggest issue with dropping football is conference affiliation which has ramifications other than athletics.
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Post by frozenbaugh on Mar 10, 2018 8:59:14 GMT -6
I don’t think dropping football D1 is crazy at all! We have been mediocre in both and we don’t have enough money to be strong in both! You can call it whatever you like but others have done it successfully Not all are successful. For every Butler and Witchita State, there is a Youngstown State and DePaul. And what has the athletic department at Ball State done to make you think it would be?
This pipe dream about dropping football is just that. The MAC as a whole would have to drop football. This isn't happening in the foreseeable future. It isn't. And there is no conference that would want Ball State. The Horizon League? We would sell out for Cleveland State. The Summit? Absolutely would pay top money to watch Denver. And I know of nothing that Ball State would offer to the Mo Valley that they don't already have.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 10, 2018 9:28:27 GMT -6
"This pipe dream about dropping football is just that. The MAC as a whole would have to drop football. This isn't happening in the foreseeable future. It isn't. And there is no conference that would want Ball State."
I'm sure football supporters at Akron, Eastern, Miami, and pretty much every MAC school are making this same "argument".
Unlike football, basketball could be cost-effective at BSU. But I no longer think this is a good bet. It's been shown pretty conclusively that BSU cannot produce the leadership necessary at the head coach and AD level to make basketball a success. When you fail at something for 18 consecutive years, I think it's time to face the truth. But basketball will survive for the same reasons football does - inertia, lack of concern for rising tuition and tax money waste, support from a small but vocal and well-connected group of fans.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 9:47:14 GMT -6
Don't forget the big pay days the university gets for going on the road to the power 5 schools to be their whipping boys.
AND the exposure the university gets nationally. It has been proven that playing the power 5 schools and having a bit of success dramatically increases student enrollment applications.
For football my small group of friends (yes it is a small group, usually 4, because attempting to get Ball U grads to travel to support our athletic programs is like herding cats) have been to Auburn, Michigan, Clemson (2x), Virginia, Texas A&M, Illinois,and Iowa. Of course Indiana and Purdue in the past. I think I'm missing a few.
This year will be a road trip for a week...ND, then family visit, then Indiana.
We had a fantastic time at each regardless of the score enjoying the big time ambiance and tailgating. Besides Auburn and Texas A&M, in which we still had a great time, we were competitive for a least 3 quarters until the 75-100lb difference per man in line weights took over in the 4th.
Even with the blowouts, we walked out with a bit of respect. I remember at the beginning of the Virginia game their arrogant fans were asking if we were a Division 1 school. Then they were gone by the start of the 4th qtr because they were crushed. Great time.
You can't tell me when we play a big time program most don't at least want to tune in to check it out.
I hope you are wrong about Neu, because he is exactly what we needed. An alumni that gives a damn about the school's success.
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Post by ballman on Mar 10, 2018 9:49:05 GMT -6
i will return my degree back to Ball U if they drop football....and you guys can't stop me😁
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 10, 2018 10:38:54 GMT -6
This whole debate on the level of involvement in football reminds me of the debates regarding smoking in public places. Doom and gloom and threats of an economic (or funding/patronage) backlash from a vocal minority.
As others have said, I would have serious doubt about BSU's ability to successfully manage such a change and the conference issue is certainly one that would need to be solved, but I suspect that if successful, what would be lost from the diehard football supporters would be more than offset by the gain in basketball support.
As it is, it seems we're pretty much destined to be average to below average in both sports with brief and short-lived elevations to the level of conference contender/champion.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 10, 2018 10:42:15 GMT -6
"It has been proven that playing the power 5 schools and having a bit of success dramatically increases student enrollment applications."
Really? Well then, since every MAC school loses millions every year, year after year, to fund their football programs, I'm sure you can point out at least one example, in all those years, for all those hundreds of millions of dollars, where this actually happened. Since it's been...you know...proven and all.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 10, 2018 10:42:42 GMT -6
Very disappointed with our finish to lose 4 in a row! I put this year at a 6-6.5. The loss of Hollywood and two good MAC guards was hard for Ball State to manage through. Mallers improvement was good to see, but he had to play out of position to help this team through changes. Ups and downs hard to take, but without dept it was to be expected. Can judge Whit’s first two years as we had dropped so far. His past three have even OK, but needs to finish. Hopefully next year will be different, if not it may be time for a change. We expect a good finish and as a general rule should expect it. In general any good coach gets teams well prepared to open the season, and finds tweaks and adjustments as needed to keep it good, but you also expect player improvement and getting to a peak at the end. We had some player improvement. Teague and Moses both played well for a stretch near the end, but Moses regressed, maybe ran into teams better prepared for the inside game we adopted as the opposition adjusted. We had no plan B after all. I'll rate the season slightly higher given that injury at the beginning forced changes at an unfortunate time, and player loss hamstrung the close. Guard play, depth and senior experience were the strong points we expected and we closed without any of that. It looks now like next year will be a year where we start with a good roster, have some weaknesses, but what first we all want to see is that well prepared team at tip off of the season. That won't be just doing what we did this year. It should mean a slightly different style of play with more scoring off the bounce from new players, more scoring on the break, and finding and using our shooting outside, which is likely to be less good outside shooting than we have seen in the recent past. We definitely need to do better than this year there. But most of all the test will be whether we can close strong and not hit the wall at the end. We did reasonably well at that last year in the MAC tourney, played well enough to push Akron. Definitely did not the year before. And whether excused or not, however big it was, maybe not quite as much as it seemed, we all expect more at the end.
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Post by david75bsu on Mar 10, 2018 10:44:37 GMT -6
I have never argued about dropping football, just drop down a division. I don’t care if you just cut out 20 scholarships. Put the money into basketball. Look at football attendance! We are and have, all but a few years, been under 10,000 and one of the worse in D-1 football. I agree about the need for a commitment to basketball, would even agree with football. It is not there and hasn’t been for a number of years. Growing tired of watching losing efforts. I hang on and hope, but hope is wearing thin. I have all but given up on football. Basketball has brought some hope, but some hope can only last for so long.
Love Ball State. Bleed Cardinal red. Getting low on blood.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 10, 2018 10:45:36 GMT -6
bring hard working athletes to campus which might influence students in a positive way is good will with alumni. Oh yeah football athletes are always influencing other students in a positive way. The biggest issue with dropping football is conference affiliation which has ramifications other than athletics. Yes, that is a major argument and I didn't mention it. I completely agree that is the argument for the MAC. And dropping football and finding a good conference are part of the same problem.
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Post by Hoopsmith on Mar 10, 2018 11:26:12 GMT -6
Very disappointed with our finish to lose 4 in a row! I think Cardfan or someone said it we were out of gas regardless of who you want to blame. There is really only one answer get rid of D1 football and move down like Butler and take most of the football budget to build a real bb program! Football supporters don’t like it but we will never be able to compete year end and year out in football but the possibilities are much better to build a steady bb program. This again? Let's not do this. It's comical that people think dropping the football program will automatically help basketball. Most understand it's indeed more complicated than this. But it's no fun to look around this time of year and see other schools in our same boat reaping the publicity benefits of nationally relevant basketball. Wichita State: State school. No football. Strong for a long time in basketball, period of decline, now a powerhouse again. Strong baseball, largely result of a single coach. Butler: Private school: Dropped scholarship football, rebuilt basketball program from near D-3 existence (their words, not mine) Kicking ass. Wright State: State school, smaller than BSU. No football. Average to good basketball team. Hired away a coach interested in our job, for chrissakes. In NCAA Tournament this year, 2 other bids since we last danced. Xavier: Small private school. No football. Kicks ass. Indiana State: State school, smaller and less-reputed than BSU. Plays FCS football, defeated BSU in last meeting. Middling basketball program, didn't capitalize on big break. 1-2 other bids since we last danced. Gonzaga: Small private school in non-basketball country. No football. Kicks ass. Dayton: Small private school. Plays non-scholarship football at high level. Loyal fanbase. Very consistent to good in basketball. DePaul: WTF??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 11:54:33 GMT -6
"It has been proven that playing the power 5 schools and having a bit of success dramatically increases student enrollment applications."
Really? Well then, since every MAC school loses millions every year, year after year, to fund their football programs, I'm sure you can point out at least one example, in all those years, for all those hundreds of millions of dollars, where this actually happened. Since it's been...you know...proven and all.
Hey Sherm, there was an article in sports illustrated not long ago talking about lower division football programs playing Power 5, showing up, competing, and sometimes beating the Power 5 and causing a surge in applications. That's just the latest article on this. This have been stated for awhile now.
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Post by thebsukid on Mar 10, 2018 12:21:23 GMT -6
I get the General's point but maybe just maybe if we dropped down in football we could afford a better AD and Coaching staff for BB. My point is simple...it would be easier to build a strong bb program over 5-10 years as opposed to building a strong D 1 football program.
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Mar 10, 2018 12:36:38 GMT -6
I get the General's point but maybe just maybe if we dropped down in football we could afford a better AD and Coaching staff for BB. My point is simple...it would be easier to build a strong bb program over 5-10 years as opposed to building a strong D 1 football program. This. A bigger budget wouldn't guarantee a stronger basketball program, but it wouldn't hurt, either. Our current payroll is how we get people like Billy Taylor and Jimmy Shitbird. Our football program is dead. Spare me the excuses, recruit rankings, youth, or anything else. It's dead. WMU, NIU and Toledo have left us in their dust, and we can't even hang with CMU or EMU anymore. There's nothing there. It will never be considered strong and it's nothing but a huge money drain.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 10, 2018 13:05:16 GMT -6
You guys can talk about this as you do every year but football is not going anywhere until the NCAA forces out all BSU like schools. That will eventually happen it is just a matter of time..
I do like the excuse that its footballs fault we can not have a competent basketball program. Whit should run with this
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