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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 11:12:45 GMT -6
For the life of me I cannot fathom how people on this board can so easily brush off the use of such a vile and charged word and then have the gall to try and even compare it to slang. I'm truly saddened to read your comments. And as for lurking.. yeah, when it comes to the use of that particular word I think it does matter what the color of your skin is. Like it matters if people were to toss around slurs against particular religious groups or people of different ethnic background. You don't have ownership of the baggage that goes along with it you shouldn't say it. John realized that while he did not use the word against another, but used it as a reference in the context of the actions of another person, it was wrong and should not have happen on hist part. He has apologized and has stated that it was wrong, several times now. It's a strange world. A liberal celebrity or athlete misspeaks or acts improperly, and apologizes, then its OK. A conservative multimillionaire misspeaks or acts improperly, and apologizes, their apology is ignored. You can't have it both ways.
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Post by realitycheck on Aug 6, 2018 11:38:00 GMT -6
For the life of me I cannot fathom how people on this board can so easily brush off the use of such a vile and charged word and then have the gall to try and even compare it to slang. I'm truly saddened to read your comments. And as for lurking.. yeah, when it comes to the use of that particular word I think it does matter what the color of your skin is. Like it matters if people were to toss around slurs against particular religious groups or people of different ethnic background. You don't have ownership of the baggage that goes along with it you shouldn't say it. John realized that while he did not use the word against another, but used it as a reference in the context of the actions of another person, it was wrong and should not have happen on hist part. He has apologized and has stated that it was wrong, several times now. It's a strange world. A liberal celebrity or athlete misspeaks or acts improperly, and apologizes, then its OK. A conservative multimillionaire misspeaks or acts improperly, and apologizes, their apology is ignored. You can't have it both ways. Liberal social media lynch mobs just can’t understand why everyone doesn’t share their knee jerk rush to judgment outrage. Yet when the majority of opinions fall against them, they deflect, defend and then accuse. It’s stupidity at its most comical.
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Post by williamtsherman on Aug 6, 2018 11:48:12 GMT -6
I think that if you are so fragile that you can't bear to hear the word in an rational discussion about the use of the word, you should probably disqualify yourself from all further involvement of the whole matter, and just leave the room. Let the adults deal with it.
I also would bet a million dollars that the person who was supposedly so traumatized by hearing Schnatter say the word has voluntarily played songs and movies containing the word a thousand times, and enjoyed them. I don't think this person was traumatized at all, but instead was actually and secretly delighted that Schnatter opened himself up to all this nonsense, and have been patting themselves on the back non-stop since the whole thing blew up.
By the way, I feel distinctly like a idiot having to say "the word" rather than just simply mentioning it. I don't see how anyone expects society to make any progress in these matters when they have to be approached in such a childish fashion. But a lot of people aren't too interested in making progress because they like having this club to beat their enemies with.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 6, 2018 12:18:37 GMT -6
For the life of me I cannot fathom how people on this board can so easily brush off the use of such a vile and charged word and then have the gall to try and even compare it to slang. I'm truly saddened to read your comments. And as for lurking.. yeah, when it comes to the use of that particular word I think it does matter what the color of your skin is. Like it matters if people were to toss around slurs against particular religious groups or people of different ethnic background. You don't have ownership of the baggage that goes along with it you shouldn't say it. I am not shrugging off the word it is a vile word.. I do not even care if they changed the name of the building or not. I also do not really care about the old Papa one bit. My question is and still remains are people so fragile that using a word in a conversation with others really offends them so much? If someone is directing the word at someone then yea they deserve to get there as kicked and if I was present I would help. Just using the word in a conversation/question/example should not cause this much of pissing contest
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Post by cbcjanney on Aug 6, 2018 12:31:50 GMT -6
For the life of me I cannot fathom how people on this board can so easily brush off the use of such a vile and charged word and then have the gall to try and even compare it to slang. I'm truly saddened to read your comments. But you don't get to decide on behalf of everyone which words fit into which category. Sure, you can decide only for you which ones are considered vile and which ones you consider slang, but it's really up to the hearer or "victim" which ones mean what to them. Jewish folks take certain terminology differently than non-Jews, same for African-Americans, women, Christians, gays, and a host of other groups. Cursing of Mohammed or Joseph Smith would be considered blasphemous and unthinkable to say to Muslims or Mormons, but mean next to nothing to someone outside those groups. And yes as apparently others do here also, I am challenged to reconcile, if we're supposed to be highlighting diversity and inclusivity, how one group can use the n-word freely and without repercussion yet another group can't even touch the word?
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Post by ballman on Aug 6, 2018 13:40:52 GMT -6
John pledged my fraternity at Ball State. At the time, there were 18 fraternities. Some had all black members. Some had all white members. Only three fraternities had a mix of both. One of the three was our fraternity. We were a mix of races, faiths and politics. Of all of the fraternities, John picked ours. I would think that a racist, or a bigot, would have selected another group to affiliate with. Not ours. Not the one with a mixed membership. John fit in just fine. He got along with everyone, and no one had a problem with John. There was nothing racist or bigoted about him. Never a complaint about John personally. I had a chance to meet up with John in 2012. He still pretty much the same guy, only he's not shy and introverted anymore. He pretty confident, but still a good, solid individual. By the way, the event was another fraternity gathering of black, white, asian, latino brothers. He engaged with everyone. If John was a racist, or a bigot, I doubt he would've taken time out of his busy life to attend such an event. I guess you can read social media, and people's uninformed opinions and jump to conclusions, or you can actually meet a person and learn the truth. Sometimes folks makes statements based on a motive, or other purpose. You gotta go a little further than that. Cardfan12 Sounds like a very good fraternity friend. Good for you for knowing him. Question to you...what does a racist look like to you if you were to describe them? Do they only look like a KKK with a hood on the head? Is that all? I think American racism needs to be looked at in the context of American history. Simply stating I know so and so and they are not racist and biased will not cut it. History trumps such an argument. Did you take history? If you skipped it I'll make it easy for you. Just google the following words to get educated. Slavery, Trail of Tears, Lynching, Jim Crow laws, Martin Luther King? Police Brutality, Racial Profiling, Shit Whole Countries. You will learn that all of these topics I provided you that whites badly oppressed and killed blacks. We do not exist in a post racial society. Please forgive me for asking you to google and know that I do not own google and its contents. It is more likely owned by a while person. Hope this will help educate you albeit basic history of race and race relations that continue to exist to this day. Taking responsibility for our attitudes towards others will be a good start to make improvement.
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Post by cardfan on Aug 6, 2018 14:24:52 GMT -6
All of which has what to do with that man using a word in a way that upset people? He shouldn't have used it, that has been established and he has apologized for it. Answer this question: Has John refused to hire minorities? Has he physically or emotionally hurt them? Whipped them? Spit on them? Hanged them? Tried to oppress them? Acted as if they are not humans? Forced them to leave their homes? Refused them service? ETC ETC ETC. Unless you can find documented proof he has done that, stop automatically calling him, or anyone you disagree with a racist.
He freaking used a word he shouldn't have, aimed at no one. It was not an attack on blacks or any other minority. You talk about history, well, John was using the word in the context of history and was attempting to give an example of how things used to be and that things have changed and that people should NOT say things like that anymore. Yeah it was clumsy and ill advised and stupid to use the actually word, but he has certainly paid the price. He was NOT calling anyone the Nword (not allowed to say it) and he was NOT saying he missed the good ol days when a white fella could drag a negro behind a truck til it killed him. Good lord, this has gone way past a reasonable response to what actually happened. Instead of letting the man try to make amends lets just destroy him for the use of ONE word that was not intentioanlly being used in a derogatory way toward anyone.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Aug 6, 2018 14:27:18 GMT -6
Some might consider it racist to ascribe to all whites the actions of some particular whites who died a long time ago...
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 6, 2018 18:05:28 GMT -6
All of which has what to do with that man using a word in a way that upset people? He shouldn't have used it, that has been established and he has apologized for it. Answer this question: Has John refused to hire minorities? Has he physically or emotionally hurt them? Whipped them? Spit on them? Hanged them? Tried to oppress them? Acted as if they are not humans? Forced them to leave their homes? Refused them service? ETC ETC ETC. Unless you can find documented proof he has done that, stop automatically calling him, or anyone you disagree with a racist. He freaking used a word he shouldn't have, aimed at no one. It was not an attack on blacks or any other minority. You talk about history, well, John was using the word in the context of history and was attempting to give an example of how things used to be and that things have changed and that people should NOT say things like that anymore. Yeah it was clumsy and ill advised and stupid to use the actually word, but he has certainly paid the price. He was NOT calling anyone the Nword (not allowed to say it) and he was NOT saying he missed the good ol days when a white fella could drag a negro behind a truck til it killed him. Good lord, this has gone way past a reasonable response to what actually happened. Instead of letting the man try to make amends lets just destroy him for the use of ONE word that was not intentioanlly being used in a derogatory way toward anyone. If we assume (reasonably) that Schnatter is not particularly sensitive and tactful, and perhaps that he is not careful in his speech generally including in this case a statement whatever its intent was about sensitive racial matters, that seems to me to explain his actions.
Not justify them, but if "racism" is to be charged I think it requires more. If very strong action taken in response, more, at the least.
If John has a record of repeated practice like this, surely that would be different.
This argument about rappers above strikes me as irrelevant. It is very clear a different standard should apply to use in music, in art, or literature, such as a novel or a dramatic work, or even in satire or parody. SNL showing a clueless Shnatter trying to explain race conflict by quoting Colonel Sanders is a far different case than use in a business meeting without being very aware it is a very "hot" word which can cause (understandably) offense.
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Post by cardfan on Aug 6, 2018 19:08:53 GMT -6
Exactly. Papa John is not polished and doesn’t express himself well but his clumsiness in that regard alone doesn’t make him racist. It does however make him very bad for his own business and professional life. As he has found out.
Now if it comes to light he has treated minorities unfairly just because of the color of their skin, or, religion, or whatever, then it’s a different ball game.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 6, 2018 19:20:44 GMT -6
I love these kind of debates but damn it I am on a diet and every time I read Papa John my mouth waters... Can we have a code name for Papa or something
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Post by cardfan on Aug 6, 2018 19:23:59 GMT -6
I love these kind of debates but damn it I am on a diet and every time I read Papa John my mouth waters... Can we have a code name for Papa or something Code name “Idiot”?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 6, 2018 19:37:51 GMT -6
Idiot could work... Or play of the TSIB theme PPJ?
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Post by cardfan on Aug 6, 2018 19:38:38 GMT -6
Not to be confused with PB&J.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Aug 7, 2018 7:05:01 GMT -6
I love these kind of debates but damn it I am on a diet and every time I read Papa John my mouth waters... Can we have a code name for Papa or something
I thought Papa John was his code name.
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