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Post by redbirdman on Jan 9, 2019 10:49:40 GMT -6
Why do other schools blogs think we will blow games? I think it is not based so much on its Ball State as the current coach's record here. Those complaining of our lack of knowing fundamentals are correct but its a problem thru out college BB. I see us as frequently lacking preparation for the opponent. The 2nd game loss to Evansville to me was all the result of us being out coached. Last night's loss was more on the seniors performances than the coach or a lack of depth.
Thompson's EMU career there to date has been wasted (he's got NBA potential) & unless that team wins the MAC or 20 games Murphy is gone.
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Post by bsucardinalfan on Jan 9, 2019 11:14:19 GMT -6
We need to just shut down the program since there’s no hope. (And tell the Big 10 that Indiana high school basketball is horrifyingly bad now so stop fighting over Indiana kids). Tell every school in the country that if they don’t have any players from within a 10 mile radius of campus they can just forget about being good. honestly we need to drop FBS football if we want basketball to be good. that's the difference in a one bid league like ours and the MVC, Horizon, Big East, etc. and the big 10 is still getting the players it always has. but in 1988 we didn't have to compete with the missouri valley, horizon, and another power five school, a resurgent ACC school, (Butler and Notre Dame on top of IU and Purdue, and the now D1 IUPUI and IPFW) teams in our state for recruits. and indiana basketball is NOT what it used to be. look at the 2018 indiana mr basketball finalists. one non big 10 recruit, going to miami ohio. 5 feet 9 inches tall.
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Post by redbirdman on Jan 9, 2019 11:34:15 GMT -6
The Horizon as currently made up is not equal to the MAC. The MVC with the withdrawal of Wichita & Creighton is also a one bid league. The size of the cities in the Big East are such the MAC will never compare with them with or without football.I will agree we can not totally make up the team w Indiana players & we certainly should go into a season with 12 players we can put on the floor not 9. After the past season & a half it would be stupid to put yourself in that spot again. Burn the redshirt play Coleman if Mallers can't play Saturday.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 9, 2019 11:39:55 GMT -6
If Mallers is out an extended period it won’t surprise me if Coleman is activated.
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Post by bsucardinalfan on Jan 9, 2019 11:45:52 GMT -6
The Horizon as currently made up is not equal to the MAC. The MVC with the withdrawal of Wichita & Creighton is also a one bid league. The size of the cities in the Big East are such the MAC will never compare with them with or without football.I will agree we can not totally make up the team w Indiana players & we certainly should go into a season with 12 players we can put on the floor not 9. After the past season & a half it would be stupid to put yourself in that spot again. Burn the redshirt play Coleman if Mallers can't play Saturday. I agree with you on the MVC and Horizon now that wichita and creighton have left. maybe that will give the MAC a little room to operate and get two bids. MAC is as strong as it has been in a while. What I'm saying about the local talent is simply: We are not going to recruit studs to move to muncie. We've historically been really good only when a local stud stays home to play for us. It is what it has always been. There haven't been any local studs for a while.
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Post by universityjim on Jan 9, 2019 11:50:14 GMT -6
Barren recruiting landscape? Wtf? Have you not heard the trumpeting of all the Indiana All stars we get? Sure None of them from Muncie but does that make them not count? Are you telling us the entire state of Indiana is a barren recruiting landscape. (While players we ignore or missed on kick our asses on other teams) Moses has turned out to be a good player. He’s from Kentucky. We don’t need to “get lucky” to get a couple of really good players. We need for our coach to be able to close on the top talent we’ve actually had on campus for visits. As a poster close to Trey says, why would any really good big want to play for Whit because of his philosophy of having his post up top passing rather than down low scoring. What have we been missing as much as anything? A dominant big in the paint. We’ve had them on campus but can’t close on them. What else have we been missing? A true floor general point guard. Whit doesn’t really recruit those well either. Bumbalough is his first one. The last kid he brought in as a true point was a juco kid he “fell in love with” after seeing him play. Cept the kid couldn’t play and washed out after a year. You are not going to win the barren landscape argument with us. Whit has also gotten kids out of Illinois. And Ohio. In other words the surrounding started where all of our coaches have traditionally recruited. We are in the MAC, with similar schools in similar situations. Somehow the others seem to overcome their situations. Whit has chosen his philosophy—the job and location didn’t choose it for him. He’s about process rather than winning. He considers the game as no longer post oriented. And therefore not of prime importance Where could we kill Mac teams regularly? In the post. Instead it’s a steady diet of high post pick and roll. When that doesn’t work we got nothing. We don’t have a battery of good perimeter shooters. And don’t call us a top Mac team yet. What’s our highest seed been so far, 4? We’ve been in line for the two seed before and collapsed down the stretch. Losing to A struggling emu team in January is not a good look. We can certainly recover but it doesn’t scream “top Mac team.” I don't think we've ever made the NCAA without a delaware county kid on the roster. what MAC schools are doing it better (other than buffalo right now). what MAC school wouldn't take Moses in a heartbeat? You go out of state and you have to compete with local schools with just as much to offer (plus being local). The entire MAC is in a barren landscape right now. One bid league. The conference has fallen so far and people don't want to admit it. Why would a kid go to the MAC if he has options in the Missouri Valley? they get multiple teams in. Why would anyone choose BSU over Butler now? Before they were Big East we could get those players. It is barren...oversaturated with options for the kids and the state of Indiana high school basketball has never been worse. Ball State NCAA Tournament Teams - Players From Delaware County Indiana 80-81 Ray McCallum (So)(Muncie Central) Mark Thurston (Sr)(Yorktown) Greg Bays (So)(Muncie Northside) 85-86None 88-89Billy Butts (Jr)(Muncie Northside) Greg Miller (Jr)(Yorktown) David Barber (Jr)(Daleville) 89-90Chandler Thompson (So)(Muncie Central) Billy Butts (Sr)(Muncie Northside) Greg Miller (Sr)(Yorktown) David Barber (Sr)(Daleville) 92-93None 94-95Bonzi Wells (Fr)(Muncie Central) Steve Smith (Fr)(Muncie Central) 99-2000Patrick Jackson (Fr)(Delta) Duane Clemens (Sr)(Muncie Southside) Rob Robbins (So)(Delta)
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Post by bsucardinalfan on Jan 9, 2019 11:58:20 GMT -6
i totally forgot about 92/93!
but look at all those delaware county players. how many have we even had on the roster since petey graduated?
people generally remember Bill Gillis fondly, right?
his senior year:10.2 Pts, 6.6 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Trey Moses this year:9.7 Pts, 6.3 Reb, 2.4 Ast
hmmmmm
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 9, 2019 12:05:57 GMT -6
i totally forgot about 92/93! but look at all those delaware county players. how many have we even had on the roster since petey graduated? people generally remember Bill Gillis fondly, right? his senior year:10.2 Pts, 6.6 Reb, 0.5 Ast Trey Moses this year:9.7 Pts, 6.3 Reb, 2.4 Ast hmmmmm For me with Trey it's more than stats. Trey is clearly a productive player. He just has so much potential that isn't being tapped. What would his stats be if he played through contact and got more and-1 opportunities. What would his scoring be if he could hit his free throws? I like Trey and I'm glad he's here, but he could be dominant and he's (usually) not. When he airballs a layup because he expected contact but the contact never came it drives me crazy.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2019 12:08:19 GMT -6
The Horizon as currently made up is not equal to the MAC. The MVC with the withdrawal of Wichita & Creighton is also a one bid league. The size of the cities in the Big East are such the MAC will never compare with them with or without football.I will agree we can not totally make up the team w Indiana players & we certainly should go into a season with 12 players we can put on the floor not 9. After the past season & a half it would be stupid to put yourself in that spot again. Burn the redshirt play Coleman if Mallers can't play Saturday. I agree with you on the MVC and Horizon now that wichita and creighton have left. maybe that will give the MAC a little room to operate and get two bids. MAC is as strong as it has been in a while. What I'm saying about the local talent is simply: We are not going to recruit studs to move to muncie. We've historically been really good only when a local stud stays home to play for us. It is what it has always been. There haven't been any local studs for a while. TSmith an exception. He made us very good for a few years. Turned out to be a stud. But also an outlier. And probably not on radar for big schools all that much.
Fact is we haven't really ever had many "stud" recruits, aren't going to get "stud" recruits except very rarely when there are some serious risks that are scaring off big school programs. Would not get Bonzi today. Might get Thompson, but he was more a "semi-stud" given his size.
Lots of our greats were not recruited by big programs, or like Butts, McCurdy, Kidd and a few more were transfers.
2 on red shirt seems a reasonable path. With 13 scholarships we can probably afford 10 active most years, be in good shape. 12 active not necessary. 2 rotation players being out at some point is not that extreme, out for extended period, unusual.
But this year 2 down right now, 3 if Mallers out for any time, last year lost 3, or 4 counting Francis. BSU and good luck, even average luck, with injury and other misfortune sure hasn't worked out for a while...
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 9, 2019 12:12:32 GMT -6
i totally forgot about 92/93! but look at all those delaware county players. how many have we even had on the roster since petey graduated? people generally remember Bill Gillis fondly, right? his senior year:10.2 Pts, 6.6 Reb, 0.5 Ast Trey Moses this year:9.7 Pts, 6.3 Reb, 2.4 Ast hmmmmm Some of that is fondness for a different style of play, but Gillis could be a real force, and any team would prefer to have at least one really physical player. Trey has not done that, where he takes over a game. He's not a focus for other teams and Gillis sometimes just killed teams if they didn't give him a lot of attention.
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Post by bsucardinalfan on Jan 9, 2019 12:13:36 GMT -6
i totally forgot about 92/93! but look at all those delaware county players. how many have we even had on the roster since petey graduated? people generally remember Bill Gillis fondly, right? his senior year:10.2 Pts, 6.6 Reb, 0.5 Ast Trey Moses this year:9.7 Pts, 6.3 Reb, 2.4 Ast hmmmmm For me with Trey it's more than stats. Trey is clearly a productive player. He just has so much potential that isn't being tapped. What would his stats be if he played through contact and got more and-1 opportunities. What would his scoring be if he could hit his free throws? I like Trey and I'm glad he's here, but he could be dominant and he's (usually) not. When he airballs a layup because he expected contact but the contact never came it drives me crazy. I agree he does appear to shy away from contact more than I'd like. when he was bullying that freshman from toledo i was like 'there! do that more!'
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Post by cardfan on Jan 9, 2019 12:27:59 GMT -6
Gillis’s numbers were deceptive. He was a physical beast and was very tough defensively. He enforced. And, when it was needed he could dominate, like in the 92 MAC tourney when he was mvp. And he was just steady. You knew what you’d get every night. He sought out contact.
Trey is a totally different player. And we play a different, more finesse style now. He’s not a brute like Gillis (yes I know, the style of play was different then). He’s up and down. Good one night, can disappear the next. Just isn’t going to impose his will on anyone, and yes, shies away from contact. Won’t challenge stronger players. But he’s more of a shot blocker when he’s feeling more aggressive.
Both good players in their own right but kinda apples to oranges.
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Post by universityjim on Jan 9, 2019 13:00:44 GMT -6
Missed on Pete Campbell, Emerson and Elliot Kampen all from Yorktown who played at Butler in during this time period. Slim picking after that.
I know Buckley said he would never recruit another Delaware County kid after he took so much grief about how the Delta kids finished their careers and then not taking Kelly Robbins from Delta. I heard that right from his lips.
18-19 - James Whitford None
17-18 - James Whitford None
16-17 - James Whitford Kaleb Mallory (Sr)(Muncie Central)
15-16 - James Whitford Kaleb Mallory (Jr)(Muncie Central) Jeremiah Davis (Rs Sr)(Muncie Central)
14-15 - James Whitford Kaleb Mallory (So)(Muncie Central) Jeremiah Davis (Rs Jr)(Muncie Central)
13-14 - James Whitford Kaleb Mallory (Fr)(Muncie Central)
12-13 - Billy Taylor Jauwan Scaife (Sr)(Muncie Central)
11-12 - Billy Taylor Jauwan Scaife (Jr)(Muncie Central)
10-11 - Billy Taylor Jauwan Scaife (So)(Muncie Central)
09-10 - Billy Taylor Jauwan Scaife (So)(Muncie Central)
08-09 - Billy Taylor None
07-08 - Billy Taylor None
06-07 - Satan None
05-06 - Tim Buckley None
04-05 - Tim Buckley None
03-04 - Tim Buckley None
02-03 - Tim Buckley None
01-02 - Tim Buckley Patrick Jackson (Sr)(Delta) Billy Lynch (Sr)(Delta) Rob Robbins (Jr)(Delta)
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Post by realitycheck on Jan 9, 2019 13:05:51 GMT -6
i totally forgot about 92/93! but look at all those delaware county players. how many have we even had on the roster since petey graduated? people generally remember Bill Gillis fondly, right? his senior year:10.2 Pts, 6.6 Reb, 0.5 Ast Trey Moses this year:9.7 Pts, 6.3 Reb, 2.4 Ast hmmmmm Ray, Bonzi & Chandler were undoubtedly transcendent difference makers. The rest of our DelCo and nearby players were complimentary with the exception maybe of Clemens, Petey & Butts. Paris McCurdy, Steve Payne, Chris Williams, Tee Smith were also tremendous non-local difference makers. Local talent is non existent today, that is true, but our past success was not solely dependent on it. No one here is claiming the MAC of today is the MAC of our dominant era from 88-01. It's clearly not. But there's plenty of talent in the state and nearby midwestern states to compete and win, which we've done. What we haven't done in six years is win more than ONE MAC tourney game TOTAL and we've not gotten "lucky" enough as you spin it to land a true stud. We've recruited well but not to a championship level. Someone, every year from what I've seen, does just that and actually wins our one-bid league. Just not us. Your portrait of Muncie as some barren dump site is unfair and inaccurate. The loss of manufacturing jobs in Muncie is typical versus atypical of most similar rust-belt towns and in truth the city has made some great strides in improving downtown, rebuilding infrastructure, razing dilapidated housing and reclaiming/repurposing old industrial sites. Muncie Community Schools is now under the management of Ball State and has an excellent board and will get turned around. In the meantime, there's plenty of good schools in Yorktown, Delta and throughout the county plus Burris. The community has issues but the meter is on the plus side, IMHO. Lastly, please don't compare Trey with Bill Gillis. Trey is a fine young man who has built a very worthy career here but Gillis was a stud and a force who could have averaged twice what he did if Payne wasn't the dominant player he was. That is statistical bullsh*t.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 9, 2019 13:13:13 GMT -6
RC, thank you.
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