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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 8:17:13 GMT -6
You have never even seen Acree or Thomas in a game, and Teague is not a top-notch athlete by DI standards. KJ wasn't recruited out of High School to be 6' 3" wing, the fact is he never developed the handles to play the point. If you look at basketball skills we are wanting in many areas. Every year you tell us all how much the new guys will help, and it never happens. Whitford's first recruiting class was solid, since then he has done a lousy job. Just not true. Not every recruit helps, but it's just silly to say "it never happens."
New guys, even with one out injured, have helped this year. KJ has outperformed your predictions. We have added good players with every class.
I don't understand how we are a better team over his tenure if the first class, now graduated, was the only class that wasn't "lousy." The more you talk, the better I think our recruiting must have been.
No I don't buy that at all, I am talking about moving the program as a whole forward. Today we are # 119, which I believe is within about 10 spots of where we were this time last season. Last year we finished the season ranked lower than the year prior. Dude are you seriously going argue without transfers this team would be anything at all. Yes his actual recruiting since the Teague/Moses (his first full) class has flat out sucked.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 13, 2019 8:23:06 GMT -6
Just not true. Not every recruit helps, but it's just silly to say "it never happens."
New guys, even with one out injured, have helped this year. KJ has outperformed your predictions. We have added good players with every class.
I don't understand how we are a better team over his tenure if the first class, now graduated, was the only class that wasn't "lousy." The more you talk, the better I think our recruiting must have been.
No I don't buy that at all. We aren't getting any better as a program, today we are # 119, which I believe is within about 10 spots of where we were this time last season. Last year we finished the season ranked lower than the year prior. Dude are you seriously going argue without transfers this team would be anything at all. Yes his actual recruiting since the Teague/Moses (his first full) class has flat out sucked. I am saying transfers count as part of recruiting. Few programs below the top level don't recruit transfers.
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 8:27:29 GMT -6
No I don't buy that at all. We aren't getting any better as a program, today we are # 119, which I believe is within about 10 spots of where we were this time last season. Last year we finished the season ranked lower than the year prior. Dude are you seriously going argue without transfers this team would be anything at all. Yes his actual recruiting since the Teague/Moses (his first full) class has flat out sucked. I am saying transfers count as part of recruiting. Few programs below the top level don't recruit transfers. Okay and outside of Persons and KJ, what have any of them done. Persons at this point is the only one who has moved the program forward. Your second sentence is why I hate discussing anything with you, NO ONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT TAKING TRANSFERS.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 9:03:56 GMT -6
For the record, I don’t think our players or coaches are pathetic. We are a better than average team filled with quality kids and some pretty decent players, a few of which can light it up on given nights. Our staff are good guys. Our head coach is a bit eccentric and stubborn, IMO, but cares about our program and players. He and all of the above are likely not going to embarrass our program or do something stupid unless you count what we saw yesterday. But we have peaked as a program under Whit, IMO. We are competitive and an upper tier (top 6?) team in the league. I just don’t see the talent, attitude and coaching to get beyond where we are. He recruits a certain kind of player for his process and we are what we are. Not much more. Fair and spot on. Exactly right. Unless whit ups his game and snags a little bit better player here and there and builds a more rounded roster, including some bull dogs who are also mentally tough, and he loses some stubbornness about “the process,” we are what we are and will be. A pretty good team that will win around 20 games, around 10 or so of those in the Mac, maybe upset a team occasionally in NonConf, and maddeningly lose to inferior teams 3-4 times a year in the MAC and at best win one Mac tourney game. That’s it. But as RC said, we’ll always be nice kids and coaches. Good people.
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Post by bsu0 on Jan 13, 2019 9:08:18 GMT -6
The entire point of my post is that overall ''things'' have not changed much. I did not and do not expect this team or any other Whit coached team to do much of anything with the exception of wallowing in the middle of the MAC. I hope he proves me wrong, but I see no change in recruiting, schemes, or attitude that would lead me to think another way. Looks to me that what you have seen is what ya gonna get. Without buying Whit out of his contract, nothing will change much until the the day he leaves.
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 9:19:13 GMT -6
For the record, I don’t think our players or coaches are pathetic. We are a better than average team filled with quality kids and some pretty decent players, a few of which can light it up on given nights. Our staff are good guys. Our head coach is a bit eccentric and stubborn, IMO, but cares about our program and players. He and all of the above are likely not going to embarrass our program or do something stupid unless you count what we saw yesterday. But we have peaked as a program under Whit, IMO. We are competitive and an upper tier (top 6?) team in the league. I just don’t see the talent, attitude and coaching to get beyond where we are. He recruits a certain kind of player for his process and we are what we are. Not much more. we’ll always be nice kids Ummmmmmmmmmm................................Not always
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 9:26:32 GMT -6
It all comes down to what we (alumni and fans) are happy with and what the administration is happy with. They ain’t the same things. We’d like an occasional championship and tough minded teams that don’t melt every couple of games. The admins want a low cost coach who doesn’t make waves who wins more than he loses and his players don’t embarrass the U. Championships are just a nice little extra.
James has done a really nice job. I’m pretty sure we’d have seen evidence this far into his tenure if he was going to be able to do more than “really nice.” We’ve not seen it.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 9:28:22 GMT -6
we’ll always be nice kids Ummmmmmmmmmm................................Not always I’m speaking generally. Every program has an ass clown or two.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 10:13:07 GMT -6
To differentiate your program in the “lower level” conferences, you not only have to be a decently talented coach, you need to be a risk taker. Whit doesn’t appear to be the latter and our dear old school wouldn’t condone it if he were.
Rick was and got away with it because he didn’t care what the admin thought.
Dick didn’t have the leverage that Rick carried from his national exposure.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 10:34:05 GMT -6
Rick came in the door telling the hiring committee if they wanted him and wanted to win they’d need to be willing to cut a few corners. They did, so he did, and we did. Hunsaker eventually paid for it.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 13, 2019 10:56:23 GMT -6
To differentiate your program in the “lower level” conferences, you not only have to be a decently talented coach, you need to be a risk taker. Whit doesn’t appear to be the latter and our dear old school wouldn’t condone it if he were. Rick was and got away with it because he didn’t care what the admin thought. Dick didn’t have the leverage that Rick carried from his national exposure. Dick was doing just fine. Cut off at the knees by an administration that overreacted badly to trouble. Trouble that in that day was not that big a deal. They had welcomed it in fact.
The difference today is that kind of trouble, whether ever really as bad as all that, a coach today cannot get away with and the administration cannot allow.
I agree about the need to take risks, but the point is that risky means it doesn't always pay off. Whitford has taken risks, including working on recruits we did not sign because they were long shots, and in signing a few kids with mixed results who might have done well.
Teague represents a bit of a risk which seems to have a decent chance to pay off, but recall the crap he took about signing him and a red shirt which many said was immediate proof it was a mistake. And up to this year people calling it a mistake. Yet we still don't know for sure...that may be the nature of risk?
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 11:03:13 GMT -6
Who’s been calling Teague a mistake up to this year? We’ve wanted a more consistent effort from him, which we ate getting now. Not because he was a “mistake” but because he has talent and can be really good. If anything we’ve said the mistake was in how Whitford was using him.
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 11:03:42 GMT -6
To differentiate your program in the “lower level” conferences, you not only have to be a decently talented coach, you need to be a risk taker. Whit doesn’t appear to be the latter and our dear old school wouldn’t condone it if he were. Rick was and got away with it because he didn’t care what the admin thought. Dick didn’t have the leverage that Rick carried from his national exposure.
Teague represents a bit of a risk which seems to have a decent chance to pay off, but recall the crap he took about signing him and a red shirt which many said was immediate proof it was a mistake. And up to this year people calling it a mistake.
What are you talking about, the only question with Teague was his transcript, and on top of that his redshirt was medical, not developmental.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 13, 2019 11:14:16 GMT -6
Who’s been calling Teague a mistake up to this year? We’ve wanted a more consistent effort from him, which we ate getting now. Not because he was a “mistake” but because he has talent and can be really good. If anything we’ve said the mistake was in how Whitford was using him. Teague was risky. Anytime we sign a kid 6-8 or better he is risky in some respect. Otherwise he'd be at a better school.
The first year he was here, any number of people said he was just not good enough to be the kind of big man we wanted, and that the red shirt conceded defeat. No good big man ever needs a red shirt, that sort of thing.
Whit's decision there was roundly criticized. Ad that inconsistency is probably part of the risk with him. May haunt us until he leaves and we miss him...just like Trey Moses.
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 11:15:57 GMT -6
Who’s been calling Teague a mistake up to this year? We’ve wanted a more consistent effort from him, which we ate getting now. Not because he was a “mistake” but because he has talent and can be really good. If anything we’ve said the mistake was in how Whitford was using him. Teague was risky. Anytime we sign a kid 6-8 or better he is risky in some respect. Otherwise he'd be at a better school.
Yes ladies and gentleman we have verified proof of stupidity.
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