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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 13, 2019 11:19:08 GMT -6
For the record, I don’t think our players or coaches are pathetic. We are a better than average team filled with quality kids and some pretty decent players, a few of which can light it up on given nights. Our staff are good guys. Our head coach is a bit eccentric and stubborn, IMO, but cares about our program and players. He and all of the above are likely not going to embarrass our program or do something stupid unless you count what we saw yesterday. But we have peaked as a program under Whit, IMO. We are competitive and an upper tier (top 6?) team in the league. I just don’t see the talent, attitude and coaching to get beyond where we are. He recruits a certain kind of player for his process and we are what we are. Not much more. It's not going to get any better than this because the administration doesn't really want any more than this. That was demonstrated very clearly by the Whitford extension (and any number of previous things). This is why I've tuned out and can't really call myself a BSU basketball fan anymore. I saw that my hopes (conf championships, NCAA excitement) are simply not in line with the school's. You guys should realize this by now also, but I can't really chide you for not recognizing it because it took me way too long. Maybe I should say I DID recognize it, but keep telling myself it would change, or that we would somehow get lucky anyway. That was foolish and caused me a lot of unnecessary grief. Furthermore, this lack of ambition makes basketball a waste of student and taxpayer money...just not nearly as large of one as football. My impression is that Whitford has basically given up on recruiting a balanced roster...the kind that's needed for a championship run/post season run. Instead he tells us, and himself, that his super-smart, in-style scheme is good enough. It's not. He may go through the motions of recruiting quality inside beef, but it doesn't appear to me that his heart is in it. Those players are so rare, and so valuable, that you need to go after them like a starving weasel to have a chance. Of course, I don't follow him around the recruiting trail, so maybe I'm wrong. But, Oh Hey!, look....we've signed another "stretch" player! Everyone is down at the moment. Quite likely you will all get up again before the season is over, and reach for the KoolAid pitcher again. But I KNOW that BSU won't go to the dance this year. Buffalo's coach did what Whitford can't/won't.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 11:56:53 GMT -6
Yep, that’s what I’m saying too, Sherm. Whit wins enough to keep the admins happy. They don’t really need/want anymore than that. Championships require more effort and investment that they just aren’t interested in making. Whit isn’t truly either.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 11:59:40 GMT -6
And, why with Whits program do we reach a point, usually in the conference portion of the season where we are “soul searching” and “seeking answers.” Every damn year. And now with a veteran club. How do the wheels come off so easily after we start looking good. Why?
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 12:28:00 GMT -6
We just built a freestanding basketball only practice facility, which is something most mid-majors don't have (hell Butler doesn't have one). I really think the investment is there, my belief is it comes down to ineptitude more than anything else. If Sandy had handled Whits contract correctly this year could be his last. I doubt, barring a tourney appearance Whitford will be seeing another extension. If he does I am with you guys 100%.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -6
Who knows......maybe Bane will eventually long for living closer to Central Indiana and transfer for the ‘20-‘21 season.
If I were Whit, I’d text him pictures of mom and granny waving from their front porch while dabbing their eyes with hankies.
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Pathetic
Jan 13, 2019 13:30:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by thebsukid on Jan 13, 2019 13:30:33 GMT -6
I did not all mean the kids or coaches are pathetic but truly meant to lose two consecutive conference games at home is pathetic!!
This team clearly has the talent to make it to the MAC final but to get there every coach and every player will need to play every minute like Persons...no player is perfect but he plays really hard..takes no minutes off in my view.
We truly need both Ish and Hazen back to compete!
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 13, 2019 14:13:28 GMT -6
We just built a freestanding basketball only practice facility, which is something most mid-majors don't have (hell Butler doesn't have one). I really think the investment is there, my is belief it comes down to ineptitude more than anything else. If Sandy had handled Whits contract correctly this year could be his last. I doubt, barring a tourney appearance Whitford will be seeing another extension. If he does I am with you guys 100%. I have been in the new facility a couple times now and it is really pretty cool and Nice. Worthern while dated is still probably the best arena in the MAC. I would love to see them do something in the concourse area to make it feel homier or just not so cold feeling. I have went to to several away games this year and it seems like most venues are adding a restaurant/bar type area/Gift shop/ Museum of sorts. The concourse is plenty big enough to do all these things. With that being said we can not blame facilities at all
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Post by CallingBS on Jan 13, 2019 14:24:24 GMT -6
Who’s been calling Teague a mistake up to this year? We’ve wanted a more consistent effort from him, which we ate getting now. Not because he was a “mistake” but because he has talent and can be really good. If anything we’ve said the mistake was in how Whitford was using him. Teague was risky. Anytime we sign a kid 6-8 or better he is risky in some respect. Otherwise he'd be at a better school.
The first year he was here, any number of people said he was just not good enough to be the kind of big man we wanted, and that the red shirt conceded defeat. No good big man ever needs a red shirt, that sort of thing.
Whit's decision there was roundly criticized. Ad that inconsistency is probably part of the risk with him. May haunt us until he leaves and we miss him...just like Trey Moses.
This is one of the most untruthful and erroneous posts I've ever read on a message board. Teague was a top 75 recruit when we got his commitment. He was a huge get. He was only risky in the sense that his family is, well, shall we say very involved, and he needed some development in terms of basketball skills.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 14:33:24 GMT -6
We just built a freestanding basketball only practice facility, which is something most mid-majors don't have (hell Butler doesn't have one). I really think the investment is there, my is belief it comes down to ineptitude more than anything else. If Sandy had handled Whits contract correctly this year could be his last. I doubt, barring a tourney appearance Whitford will be seeing another extension. If he does I am with you guys 100%. I have been in the new facility a couple times now and it is really pretty cool and Nice. Worthern while dated is still probably the best arena in the MAC. I would love to see them do something in the concourse area to make it feel homier or just not so cold feeling. I have went to to several away games this year and it seems like most venues are adding a restaurant/bar type area/Gift shop/ Museum of sorts. The concourse is plenty big enough to do all these things. With that being said we can not blame facilities at all Cmon man, that requires vision and imagination, which is in short supply in athletics, and facilities management. But great ideas anyway.
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Post by journalismjoe76 on Jan 13, 2019 14:33:40 GMT -6
We just built a freestanding basketball only practice facility, which is something most mid-majors don't have (hell Butler doesn't have one). I really think the investment is there, my is belief it comes down to ineptitude more than anything else. If Sandy had handled Whits contract correctly this year could be his last. I doubt, barring a tourney appearance Whitford will be seeing another extension. If he does I am with you guys 100%. I have been in the new facility a couple times now and it is really pretty cool and Nice. Worthern while dated is still probably the best arena in the MAC. I would love to see them do something in the concourse area to make it feel homier or just not so cold feeling. I have went to to several away games this year and it seems like most venues are adding a restaurant/bar type area/Gift shop/ Museum of sorts. The concourse is plenty big enough to do all these things. With that being said we can not blame facilities at all We should reach out to a school that has an architecture program and convince one of the profs to assign a project to one of the classes to design something to remove the starkness and sterile feel of the concourse area.
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Post by CallingBS on Jan 13, 2019 14:39:06 GMT -6
For the record, I don’t think our players or coaches are pathetic. We are a better than average team filled with quality kids and some pretty decent players, a few of which can light it up on given nights. Our staff are good guys. Our head coach is a bit eccentric and stubborn, IMO, but cares about our program and players. He and all of the above are likely not going to embarrass our program or do something stupid unless you count what we saw yesterday. But we have peaked as a program under Whit, IMO. We are competitive and an upper tier (top 6?) team in the league. I just don’t see the talent, attitude and coaching to get beyond where we are. He recruits a certain kind of player for his process and we are what we are. Not much more. I generally agree with most of your post, but first, I think we have several players on our roster who have no business being there or no business being put in the roles they have been placed in. I won't mention names for obvious reasons. Second, according to my Muncie area friends, Whitford is downright standoffish and rude to people in the community and campus. This is a dangerous way for a coach to behave, because they have no equity during down times. In other words, the community has little patience with them. Conversely, my business friends in the community loved Pete Lembo, and it showed, because our fan base extended a lot of grace to him when the program started tanking. I definitely agree that Whit will never do anything to disgrace BSU, but his coaching, recruiting, and lack of overall energy leaves a whole lot to be desired. He once told a business leader in Muncie that they had their recruiting class locked up, and that it was nice for him and the staff to only have to put about 15-20 hours a week in the office and not travel over the summer. Keep in mind this was one of those years we sat on a couple of scholarships, not to mention recruiting never sleeps with underclassmen and transfers. The whole conversation did not sit well with that staunch supporter and donor, a man who puts in a lot of hours at his job. I also agree that we generally won't have trouble children under Whit, although we have had a few outliers. Finally, there's no doubt we are who we are with Whit. We have definitely peaked. I would, however, argue that it will go south for him at some point. He won't always win 18-21 games regardless of schedule. We saw Billy Taylor lose the program, and it will happen to Whitford if he hangs around too long.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 13, 2019 14:54:25 GMT -6
Teague was risky. Anytime we sign a kid 6-8 or better he is risky in some respect. Otherwise he'd be at a better school.
The first year he was here, any number of people said he was just not good enough to be the kind of big man we wanted, and that the red shirt conceded defeat. No good big man ever needs a red shirt, that sort of thing.
Whit's decision there was roundly criticized. Ad that inconsistency is probably part of the risk with him. May haunt us until he leaves and we miss him...just like Trey Moses.
This is one of the most untruthful and erroneous posts I've ever read on a message board. Teague was a top 75 recruit when we got his commitment. He was a huge get. He was only risky in the sense that his family is, well, shall we say very involved, and he needed some development in terms of basketball skills. Im not saying your wrong or sweeps wrong because I do not know. I will say that back then the scuttlebut was there were some grade issues as well. I do not know if that was or ever could have proven but it seemed to be accepted as truth at that time
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Post by cardfan on Jan 13, 2019 15:12:34 GMT -6
This is one of the most untruthful and erroneous posts I've ever read on a message board. Teague was a top 75 recruit when we got his commitment. He was a huge get. He was only risky in the sense that his family is, well, shall we say very involved, and he needed some development in terms of basketball skills. Im not saying your wrong or sweeps wrong because I do not know. I will say that back then the scuttlebut was there were some grade issues as well. I do not know if that was or ever could have proven but it seemed to be accepted as truth at that time I remember an Indy star blogger saying that Teagues transcript was a mess. I was surprised he qualified, really. Big reason he wasn’t recruited more.
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Pathetic
Jan 13, 2019 15:24:35 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by CallingBS on Jan 13, 2019 15:24:35 GMT -6
Im not saying your wrong or sweeps wrong because I do not know. I will say that back then the scuttlebut was there were some grade issues as well. I do not know if that was or ever could have proven but it seemed to be accepted as truth at that time I remember an Indy star blogger saying that Teagues transcript was a mess. I was surprised he qualified, really. Big reason he wasn’t recruited more. I remember that as well. My point to hmh was that he wasn't really much of a risk, because mid majors absolutely have to jump on kids like that when the opportunity comes along. He's our highest rated recruit since Bonzi.
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Post by sweep on Jan 13, 2019 15:48:16 GMT -6
I remember an Indy star blogger saying that Teagues transcript was a mess. I was surprised he qualified, really. Big reason he wasn’t recruited more. I remember that as well. My point to hmh was that he wasn't really much of a risk, because mid majors absolutely have to jump on kids like that when the opportunity comes along. He's our highest rated recruit since Bonzi. 00's point was stupid, do you think when Butler recruited Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward they thought they were taking a risk. It was the same with Teague, there was virtually zero risk he was going to be a flame out talent wise.
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