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Post by 00hmh on Nov 23, 2022 15:37:17 GMT -6
Be very honest here...let's say Paddock was African American, would you think he would have been allowed and continued to play in 12 games despite the less than acceptable performance. Wait a minute. JP has his faults, but has also made plays and whether you and I consider it overall acceptable, what we don't know is that Neu was convinced he had a better choice. Maybe. What we all seem to agree on is that Kelly should have played some snaps. NOT that Paddock should have been replaced with running QB and the offense totally changed in midseason. |
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Post by david75bsu on Nov 23, 2022 15:47:17 GMT -6
I think it’s through more of the lens of “guys like Paddock can make loss inducing mistakes over and over and I/we can’t even get the first chance.” Doesnt make it racist. But it does make it very personal. Which is why I want direct evidence. Neu’s decision making being incomprehensible doesnt help matters. But to allege such a repugnant motive without backing up with concrete support is vile. Agree 100%. Racism is thrown around too loosely and it needs to stop. Kelly got a scholarship, others did not. IMO, Neu’s biggest fault is that he is loyal to the end! He needs to me more willing to evaluate and make change when change is needed - he does not display this trait. |
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Post by BSU Card Fan in AZ on Nov 23, 2022 16:03:48 GMT -6
Be very honest here...let's say Paddock was African American, would you think he would have been allowed and continued to play in 12 games despite the less than acceptable performance. ZERO way to know that. Ask the same about Tyler. This crap can get out of hand with baseless claims these days. This is way off base. Let's move on to the real issues this team and staff face. |
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Post by grass on Nov 23, 2022 16:07:08 GMT -6
Breaking young men down and building them up is a classic football strategy, especially among old school-ish coaches. Mike’s from that era and Schudel was all about that. Has nothing to do with race. However, our two-deep, and roster, are likely predominantly African-American, so (given the break down/build up) approach and numbers, I can see how someone would surmise that (racism). Personally, I don’t buy the racism angle one bit, especially with a coach who has a strong EQ, like Mike.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 23, 2022 16:40:35 GMT -6
Be very honest here...let's say Paddock was African American, would you think he would have been allowed and continued to play in 12 games despite the less than acceptable performance.
Despite what you see on courtroom dramas on TV, it is generally objectionable for a lawyer to remind a witness that he is under oath, because it implies that the lawyer knows the witness is lying. That's how I interpret your "be very honest here." The two choices as you frame them are 1) agree with you; or 2) be dishonest.
There's also an error in reasoning based Paddock playing despite less than acceptable performance. Whether Paddock's performance was acceptable isn't really the issue. The issue is whether Paddock's performance was the best available option. A couple of weeks ago I was arguing that there was nothing to indicate that Paddock wasn't the best option. Now that we've got actual evidence, I'm confounded by what appears to be very strong evidence that Kelly is a better option. Despite my bewilderment on how Neu made his decisions, if you're going to allege racism you need more than wild conjecture and unnamed sources.
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Post by cardfan on Nov 23, 2022 18:13:52 GMT -6
More than anything, I just cannot believe we blew that game. Very hard to digest.
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Post by cardman on Nov 23, 2022 18:22:51 GMT -6
I never asked you or anyone else to agree with me. Just answer the question I posed. You can be dishonest if you like, and I will not be offended. Racism is all around me and that is my experience and you can't change that fact. Change is a coming!
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 23, 2022 18:46:49 GMT -6
if you're going to allege racism you need more than wild conjecture and unnamed sources.
You haven't been paying much attention to national affairs the last few years. |
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Post by chirprising on Nov 23, 2022 19:01:15 GMT -6
Breaking young men down and building them up is a classic football strategy, especially among old school-ish coaches. Mike’s from that era and Schudel was all about that. Has nothing to do with race. However, our two-deep, and roster, are likely predominantly African-American, so (given the break down/build up) approach and numbers, I can see how someone would surmise that (racism). Personally, I don’t buy the racism angle one bit, especially with a coach who has a strong EQ, like Mike. I lean towards your take on this particular issue, grass as well as cardfan. Breaking them down and building them up is indeed how they do it old-school in football and you combine that with Neu's bias towards how he thinks quarterback should be played (evolution be damned) and you can see why some players might take it that way. And I think Kelly is a real flashpoint on this, too especially if these practice reports are true. Nobody here understands why we didn't see him before last Tuesday. There was nothing preventing these guys from assembling that play package before Tuesday. As for other comments about this being fraudulent, wild conjecture, put up or shut up and baseless claims, tell that to the players who are certainly feeling it's none of those things. That's exactly what not to do. Since they are living it, I'm not inclined to tell them it's all in their imagination. What I am inclined to do is hear them out, tell them that it's not personal, that's not the intent nor is that the plan for their careers at Ball State. There are more than a few African-American players who have done well under Neu. That would nip it in the bud. Let's lower the temperature on this particular issue and stay focused on what the bigger challenges are. God knows there are plenty enough of those. |
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Post by BSUMike on Nov 23, 2022 19:31:19 GMT -6
I imagine players complaining about playing time and thinking they are better than the starters is very common. I would be surprised if this is a case of racism, but certainly it sounds like there could be better communication and maybe a touch of unconscious bias. Players should know where they stand on the team, have a good idea what their role is, and what steps they can take to increase their role. The fact that the coach and the players don’t agree about player usage is not evidence of racism. It is evidence that not all is well inside the locker room. Are all the white skinned backups happy with sitting on the bench? Just curious. If there are legitimate concerns and players don’t feel comfortable voicing their concerns, that’s a problem. It may well be a misunderstanding or misinterpretation by the player, but you’d like to think a team that so often describes itself as a family would encourage open and honest dialogue.
The fact of the matter is, if we were winning there would be much less to complain about in terms of playing time. Winning solves a lot of problems and losing tends to create more problems.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 23, 2022 20:10:07 GMT -6
As for other comments about this being fraudulent, wild conjecture, put up or shut up and baseless claims, tell that to the players who are certainly feeling it's none of those things. That's exactly what not to do. Since they are living it, I'm not inclined to tell them it's all in their imagination. Those comments aren't directed at the players, they're directed at you. I'm not saying whatever you were told was in whoever told it to you's imagination, because I have no idea who said what. If a player wants to make a statement I'd be super interested in what they had to say. If it was credible I'd want to see it thoroughly investigated. If it was substantiated by the investigation I'd want to see appropriate remedial action. You're the one on here claiming vague things that unnamed people are telling you. So you, chirprising, put up or shut up. At best you are airing the dirty laundry of players who apparently aren't willing to say these things publicly, and at worst you are maligning the character of our head coach. Edit: I will add that I hesitated for a while before posting this. I don’t enjoy calling anyone out or making anything personal. Which is why I reacted strongly. Those are personal allegations against Neu. I hope we can let this issue fade away. |
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Post by redfeather on Nov 23, 2022 22:17:33 GMT -6
I’m going to ask this one more time as I’m terribly perplexed as to why late in the game on 4th and two feet why didn’t we have Kelly under center with Steele in the backfield?? The Defense in my view could not have totally keyed on Steele. To me, this was a no brainer. Neu will clearly stick around but hopefully he finally makes some major staff changes I couldn’t understand why they didn’t run a naked QB end run on the left side? One yard and Steele was the decoy seemed like a great call to me! But hey if we could figure out what’s in Neu’s or Lynch’s head then maybe wouldn’t be so confusing, angry and over them! |
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Post by frozenbaugh on Nov 24, 2022 5:53:50 GMT -6
I remember when a few posters on the Western Michigan MAC board got sued for defamation years ago.
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Post by chirprising on Nov 24, 2022 8:46:16 GMT -6
As for other comments about this being fraudulent, wild conjecture, put up or shut up and baseless claims, tell that to the players who are certainly feeling it's none of those things. That's exactly what not to do. Since they are living it, I'm not inclined to tell them it's all in their imagination. Those comments aren't directed at the players, they're directed at you. I'm not saying whatever you were told was in whoever told it to you's imagination, because I have no idea who said what. If a player wants to make a statement I'd be super interested in what they had to say. If it was credible I'd want to see it thoroughly investigated. If it was substantiated by the investigation I'd want to see appropriate remedial action. You're the one on here claiming vague things that unnamed people are telling you. So you, chirprising, put up or shut up. At best you are airing the dirty laundry of players who apparently aren't willing to say these things publicly, and at worst you are maligning the character of our head coach. Edit: I will add that I hesitated for a while before posting this. I don’t enjoy calling anyone out or making anything personal. Which is why I reacted strongly. Those are personal allegations against Neu. I hope we can let this issue fade away. |
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Post by chirprising on Nov 24, 2022 9:42:16 GMT -6
Those comments aren't directed at the players, they're directed at you. I'm not saying whatever you were told was in whoever told it to you's imagination, because I have no idea who said what. If a player wants to make a statement I'd be super interested in what they had to say. If it was credible I'd want to see it thoroughly investigated. If it was substantiated by the investigation I'd want to see appropriate remedial action. You're the one on here claiming vague things that unnamed people are telling you. So you, chirprising, put up or shut up. At best you are airing the dirty laundry of players who apparently aren't willing to say these things publicly, and at worst you are maligning the character of our head coach. Edit: I will add that I hesitated for a while before posting this. I don’t enjoy calling anyone out or making anything personal. Which is why I reacted strongly. Those are personal allegations against Neu. I hope we can let this issue fade away. This is a master class in parsing a message to re-direct a conversation which you did quite literally, editing out my last message where I clearly said what I think is really going on and how it should be addressed. In your world, one should come to this forum and name names, otherwise the information is invalid but others who have little birdies in the program aren't asked to do the same. And your response confirms EXACTLY why the players are reluctant to say anything-the conversation gets focused on you rather than what you are experiencing. I never called Neu racist or attacked him personally. (I think he is a good man whose stubbornness and unwillingness to change has cost us.) I did say there are more than a few players who are absolutely feeling they are being treated differently. In either event, that concern should be addressed so it doesn't fester. And it is Neu's responsibility to do so. To spare myself more selective editing and deflection that's my final comment on this. |
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