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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 31, 2023 8:49:31 GMT -6
Lets not forget this is not starting in college. Kids are moving everywhere as early as grade school. Dont like your little league move to another league. Didnt like your aau basketball team just switch. Your 6th grade travel ball team didnt play you enough its time to switch again. Cant play at Delta just go to Wes Del. Play well at Delta move to New Pal. Adversity and Conflict resolution are now solved by running I guess I am failing to see what is wrong with putting yourself in the best possible position? |
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Post by officerfarva on Mar 31, 2023 9:07:44 GMT -6
Lets not forget this is not starting in college. Kids are moving everywhere as early as grade school. Dont like your little league move to another league. Didnt like your aau basketball team just switch. Your 6th grade travel ball team didnt play you enough its time to switch again. Cant play at Delta just go to Wes Del. Play well at Delta move to New Pal. Adversity and Conflict resolution are now solved by running I guess I am failing to see what is wrong with putting yourself in the best possible position? I agree 1000%. The amount of shit these kids take for just seeking out the best possible situation for themselves is unreal. And I don't care if it's middle school, high school, or college. Go where you can actually play, and have fun doing it. |
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Post by cardfan on Mar 31, 2023 9:31:54 GMT -6
I guess I am failing to see what is wrong with putting yourself in the best possible position? I agree 1000%. The amount of shit these kids take for just seeking out the best possible situation for themselves is unreal. And I don't care if it's middle school, high school, or college. Go where you can actually play, and have fun doing it. Does actually attending school factor in there anywhere or is it all about athletics even though most of those kids will never make it? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 31, 2023 9:54:49 GMT -6
And prior to the transfer portal, D1 basketball players were focused on their education?
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Post by cardfan on Mar 31, 2023 11:19:36 GMT -6
And prior to the transfer portal, D1 basketball players were focused on their education? No, but I was more referring to the elementary - high school ages. |
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 31, 2023 11:23:35 GMT -6
And prior to the transfer portal, D1 basketball players were focused on their education? Whether they were focused on not, NCAA rules did tend to keep them at the first school they chose. That's easier for the athlete to be influenced by an academic structure and get a little focus than if there is much less commitment. That first school could be a bad choice for academics, true...but the new system encourages a churning that has very little or no focus at all on academics. And actual difficulty transferring credits and changing gears. |
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 31, 2023 11:28:51 GMT -6
I agree 1000%. The amount of shit these kids take for just seeking out the best possible situation for themselves is unreal. And I don't care if it's middle school, high school, or college. Go where you can actually play, and have fun doing it. Does actually attending school factor in there anywhere or is it all about athletics even though most of those kids will never make it? I agree the changes makes the student athlete model even more a fiction than it is. NCAA academic progress somewhat incentivizes a program and students to care about that. NIL and easy transfer has to at least distract programs and athletes from making academics more important. |
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Post by officerfarva on Mar 31, 2023 12:08:56 GMT -6
And prior to the transfer portal, D1 basketball players were focused on their education? No, but I was more referring to the elementary - high school ages. If sports is the conduit by which a kid may end up continuing their education? Absolutely. Hell, even if it isn't and it just means more opportunity to actually play a sport they love, why not? I don't think anyone would blink if a kid changed schools because they had better opportunities in fine arts or academics elsewhere. Sports - in my opinion - is no different. |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 31, 2023 14:53:35 GMT -6
I agree 1000%. The amount of shit these kids take for just seeking out the best possible situation for themselves is unreal. And I don't care if it's middle school, high school, or college. Go where you can actually play, and have fun doing it. Does actually attending school factor in there anywhere or is it all about athletics even though most of those kids will never make it? You get out of an education what you put into it. If a guy is making $8/hour at WalMart and accepts a job that pays $10/hour at Target nobody would bat an eye. But when it's kids trying to improve their positions a lot of people want to give them shit about it. |
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 31, 2023 17:02:43 GMT -6
Wait a minute. This is not Target vs Walmart as a part time dead end job. Not just short term income to consider either.
College trains you for higher long term income potential. If this was only greater short income, I don't care so much, but if it is at the cost of the long term benefit of college I start to worry that this is no longer college sports. Just semi-pro BB.
If broadly speaking you're not in college at least partially for purpose to learn, you shouldn't be eligible to play.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 31, 2023 17:05:49 GMT -6
No, but I was more referring to the elementary - high school ages. If sports is the conduit by which a kid may end up continuing their education? Absolutely. Hell, even if it isn't and it just means more opportunity to actually play a sport they love, why not? I don't think anyone would blink if a kid changed schools because they had better opportunities in fine arts or academics elsewhere. Sports - in my opinion - is no different. Fine arts or academics is academic and a different reason to transfer. No objection to athletes greatly enjoying the sport, just that the pleasure should linked to the academic benefit you mention above, not overwhelm it and even negate it. |
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Post by officerfarva on Mar 31, 2023 20:03:32 GMT -6
If sports is the conduit by which a kid may end up continuing their education? Absolutely. Hell, even if it isn't and it just means more opportunity to actually play a sport they love, why not? I don't think anyone would blink if a kid changed schools because they had better opportunities in fine arts or academics elsewhere. Sports - in my opinion - is no different. Fine arts or academics is academic and a different reason to transfer. Respectfully, I disagree. The pursuit of art, academia, or sport are all - in essence - the pursuit of excellence...or of just basic happiness! There are a lot of former D1 athletes out there working as roofers. There are a lot of high school grads out there crushing it and out-earning college grads by a wide margin. Let these kids go wherever they need, whenever they need, to figure it out. Transfer rules are about protecting institutions. And - again, respectfully - most of these institutions don't give a solitary fuck about what happens to these players as long as they're helping keep things in the black. |
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Post by universityjim on Apr 1, 2023 8:44:26 GMT -6
I personally don't see a difference between "fine arts" and athletics even though our society makes huge distinctions between the two academicly. Act, sing, paint, sculpt, blow a horn, or carry a football. Different skill sets for certain but you don't need to be overly smart to do any of those things and being able to says nothing about one's culture or refinement.
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Post by lmills72 on Apr 1, 2023 8:48:36 GMT -6
Respectfully, I disagree. The pursuit of art, academia, or sport are all - in essence - the pursuit of excellence...or of just basic happiness! I think the trouble with the portal and current transfer rules is that they allow this continual search for "happiness." I know, it sounds bad that I would be against that. But there are tons of people out there (not just young athletes) searching for happiness, and they haven't a clue what will truly make them happy. And so they try every little thing they can think of, moving from one "solution" to the next and never finding what they want. Maybe a new coach will make them happy ... nope ... well maybe a new school ... nope ... more playing time ... nope ... more money .. nope ... new girlfriend/boyfriend, husband/wife ... nope ... the list goes on and on. I think what many people don't realize is that sometimes, instead of turning tail and running, you find happiness through struggle, which can also be where you find your highest level of satisfaction and accomplishment. So should kids be able to transfer? Sure, why not. And some kids probably have very legitimate reasons to do so. But, I suspect at least half of the kids in the portal just want the easy path to happiness and would be better off just to stay where they are and work through it. |
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 1, 2023 9:01:29 GMT -6
I personally don't see a difference between "fine arts" and athletics even though our society makes huge distinctions between the two academicly. Act, sing, blow a horn, or carry a football. Different skill sets for certain but you don't need to be overly smart to do any of those things and being able to says nothing about one's culture or refinement.
OTOH a fine arts student has a lifetime to practice the art.
In any university curriculum the education has as a goal something other than the student enjoying his activities, the student has to meet established academic standards.
As to the practical utility of the pursuit of athletics, I agree there is value to the student, but there are some differences. An athlete has not only less time to use the skills he may develop in college, but there is no academic "curriculum" in athletics (which puts it under review by the university at large and by external accreditation bodies) and no established "credit" accrued in athletics "study" which can be used in transfer to obtain a degree. Sports has educational value and is valuable to the university but it is literally extracurricular.
If a student is an artist, but not a student in fine arts, and if the student's artistic efforts are independent of the University's academic oversight, the situation is perhaps then more similar. But we don't give scholarships to artists purely as performers. Nor do we consider those independent artistic pursuits the primary purpose of the student's university life.
The post above equated "academic or fine arts" pursuits to sports and I think went too far in saying they are parallels.
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