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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 7, 2023 11:54:23 GMT -6
It will settle down some as the covid year exemptions finally phase themselves out but until then its take what you can get... Our NIL programs and the few student ran Nils seem to have flopped. Feed the Bird started off promising but since its public launch we have never heard another word. There have been several player started NIl orgs based on donation I think the last I checked it was at 200 dollars raised. We talk about how bad it sucks but we are not helping none to very few of us or normal alum are donating. Same faces and pockets donated what little we have.
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Post by coastalcard on Aug 7, 2023 12:07:05 GMT -6
I didn’t major in finance but …..ROI analysis indicates “money down a rat hole”. We couldn’t compete pre-NIL, pretty obvious we have less a chance going dollar to dollar with them.
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Boogie
Aug 7, 2023 12:09:35 GMT -6
Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 7, 2023 12:09:35 GMT -6
I didn’t major in finance but …..ROI analysis indicates “money down a rat hole”. We couldn’t compete pre-NIL, pretty obvious we have less a chance going dollar to dollar with them. I agree you have to have many big money donors or several big corporate donors.. We have none of the above
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Post by cardfan on Aug 7, 2023 12:35:08 GMT -6
NIL for BSU is just not sustainable. Our finances for athletics are thin as it is and most donors are tapped out. Paying players just isn't that popular an idea for a BSU. (and, right or wrong, a lot of people still resent that athletes who get everything paid for plus get a stipend and are well fed want to get paid on top of that)
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Post by 00hmh on Aug 7, 2023 12:57:19 GMT -6
I didn’t major in finance but …..ROI analysis indicates “money down a rat hole”. We couldn’t compete pre-NIL, pretty obvious we have less a chance going dollar to dollar with them. I agree you have to have many big money donors or several big corporate donors.. We have none of the above A well established brand really helps, too. I'm guessing FB brand is a key, which means P5 history. Excepting ND in FB and a few BB programs in the Big East, a big alumni fan base originated in FB and is a culture created over decades. A MAC school just can't create that alumni link from scratch now. The rich get richer...
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Post by coastalcard on Aug 7, 2023 14:37:34 GMT -6
I doubt the situation that Lewis/BSU now find themselves is an anomaly among the majority of non-P5 schools this recruiting year. As rmcalhoun mentions, the COVID year exacerbates the problem in the short term. You can't blame the ones that left for P5 schools or bigger programs (UCF, Mizzou, IU...). What you need to understand going forward (football or basketball) is why others leave. Is it money, coaching style, playing time, location, chance for a championship, chance for later professional opportunity, playing in front of a real crowd.....?.
In basketball, we aren't dealing with guys that were recruited by the current coach. In football, the players certainly knew what they were getting into. We make an assumption that Lewis has a hard a** style that today's recruits might not want to tolerate. That may or may not be true. All I know is that I've seen some severe butt kicking and verbal lashings on TV from some well thought of coaches who are very successful. I can't imagine their practices are less hard ball than Michael Lewis practices. Michael is nobody's dummy. I have to think that Lewis has seen college coaching styles first hand (beyond Bob Knight) to know what is or is not successful with today's athletes. Probably better than ANY of us. Just my opinion.
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Post by comet on Aug 7, 2023 16:51:19 GMT -6
Im not going to blame Lewis for the transfers Nil is real and right now its unchecked and crooked. Ill also take it a step further since lewis's arrival there have been at least 2 high level high school recruits that we had ready to conmit until they got a better cash offer. What can you do ultimately Lewis has to figure it out but its not an even playing field right now Well stated, Rob.
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Boogie
Aug 7, 2023 18:12:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by williamtsherman on Aug 7, 2023 18:12:02 GMT -6
So it would seem that Mac schools now face such enormous disadvantages that it is completely unrealistic to expect any mac coach to ever contend for a Mac title. Therefore if Lewis can achieve a .500 record with the talent depleted roster, we should be impressed and grateful. Because what can a coach possibly do about the talent level of his roster?
I think I’m correctly interpreting the gist of the above posts
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Post by bsutrack on Aug 7, 2023 18:34:22 GMT -6
So it would seem that Mac schools now face such enormous disadvantages that it is completely unrealistic to expect any mac coach to ever contend for a Mac title. No, they still give titles for teams winning AAA and even AA baseball leagues. It's just once they do well, their players normally get called up to the major leagues where they pay real money. Coleman just got the call to the majors.
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Boogie
Aug 7, 2023 18:46:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 00hmh on Aug 7, 2023 18:46:33 GMT -6
So it would seem that Mac schools now face such enormous disadvantages that it is completely unrealistic to expect any mac coach to ever contend for a Mac title. Therefore if Lewis can achieve a .500 record with the talent depleted roster, we should be impressed and grateful. Because what can a coach possibly do about the talent level of his roster? I think I’m correctly interpreting the gist of the above posts Not at all Sherm. The posts add up to saying MAC teams will not be competitive with those schools with NIL money. We're even more a second rate conference. Once upon a time we might expect a year occasionally where we could compete in an NCAA. Not as often now THIS year where we lost so much Lewis may well deserve praise if he can be competitive. We probably lost more than other good programs. BSU will not have advantage in the MAC over time with NIL, which will hurt.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 7, 2023 19:22:30 GMT -6
Football is not being effected as much with highschool kids at our level. There are so many 2/3 Stars players no ones paying them. Now if you end up being good the payday when you leave us outrageous
Less players in B ball and almost all players are getting something. If you have even a couple schools battling and one can give you 5-10k what one are you picking
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Post by ctshowtyme on Aug 7, 2023 19:30:16 GMT -6
My guess is that we are and will remain in the lower half of the MAC in NIL money. I worry this will hurt us within in the conference. And that it will hurt us in relation to a number of non-MAC mid-majors. But how much that difference is in money, I just don't know. I'm not making excuses for Lewis. He still has a job to do. But the combination of the portal and lack of NIL has me pretty concerned.
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Post by bsutrack on Aug 8, 2023 5:55:13 GMT -6
Let's take this to it's logical extension.
Every mid-major basketball program needs to align themselves with a high major program and become their farm team. Probably would work best if somewhat geographical. Say for the sake of argument, Ball State aligns itself with Purdue. Each year Purdue's head coach, Painter, would send over to Ball State 2 or 3 freshmen or sophomores who he realizes will not be in his rotation at Purdue, but could really improve if given steady minutes at Ball State. Since these would all be NIL quality athletes, they should be better than anything on BSU's roster. Ball State would provide the scholarships so there would be a lot of coordination needed between Painter and Lewis to ensure the correct number of open roster slots were available at BSU. The key would be Purdue continuing their NIL payments to these players even when playing at BSU.
At the end of the season, Painter could then decide which players had improved enough to bring back Purdue the following season. Which players still needed more time at BSU, or which players had been a waste of NIL and cut-off their payments. Lewis could then decided if he wanted to keep them, or kick them to the curb.
The real benefit here to the high major is the extra pool of players. Not only does a Purdue have 13 players in West Lafayette, but however many players they convince Lewis at BSU to take. Your real limitation might only be your NIL budget. If you can afford to park 13 players at BSU, your player pool could be 26 players instead of the NCAA allowed 13.
Of course like Parent organizations in major league baseball, the coaching staffs of farm teams are normally selected by the Parent Club. Purdue would want someone who they felt had the best chance of developing their players. If they felt Lewis wasn't up to the task, they would probably have BSU replace him with someone to their liking. So maybe for Lewis' sake, he should hope BSU pairs with Indiana University.
The real question is do you do this above board in plain view, or under the table. I would suggest under the table first. As with any breakout strategy, earlier adopters will have the advantage. Aligning your university with the strongest NIL "blessed" universities will be the key. Eventually the NCAA will figure things out such as Kentucky quality freshman and sophomores playing a season or two at Eastern Kentucky and then transferring to Kentucky, but by then Eastern Kentucky will have won their conference multiple times.
Problems with this system? What if the player doesn't want to go to the mid-major farm club? Too bad, you lose your NIL. Just like any kid out of college who signs on to a major corporation only to have the company transfer them 3 times in your first 7 years. Too bad kid, follow you paycheck. What about if the farm university doesn't have as strong a department in your major or even a program in your major? Once you start taking NIL you aren't students anymore. Rather, you're a mini professional athletes and should expect to be treated accordingly.
P.S. Actually parking 13 players at one mid-major would destroy the entire playing time for development argument. Instead, making agreements with 2 or 3 university and sending each 2 or 3 players would have a better desired effect.
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dcat
Freshman
Posts: 97
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Boogie
Aug 8, 2023 6:51:23 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by dcat on Aug 8, 2023 6:51:23 GMT -6
I could never figure out why some sort of partnership with Ball Corp wasn't cultivated? That seems like an obvious relationship that could generate some real decent support?
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Post by cardfan on Aug 8, 2023 7:19:14 GMT -6
I could never figure out why some sort of partnership with Ball Corp wasn't cultivated? That seems like an obvious relationship that could generate some real decent support? Except they moved to Colorado. Not much tie to Muncie/BSU anymore.
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