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Post by gocards17 on Jan 16, 2018 14:38:43 GMT -6
Exactly. We aren't asking for a 7 footer, we just need a bad ass in the middle. Moses is 6'9. But he is not a bad ass. Great kid, but not a bad ass. Bill Gillis was a bad man in there. He was 6'7. Paris Mccurdy, 6'7 (well, more like 6'5, but whatever). Curtis Kidd, 6'8. Hell, Dave Broz and Ryan Reed were wildmen in there but not skilled. But they'd foul the hell out of you. We lack an "enforcer" mentality. And yes, Teague ought to always be flashing to the rim with his skill set. How many tip dunks would he have by now? He could clean up a lot of garbage if his style of play was to be constantly going to the rim instead of hanging around outside. cardfan what are bad ass numbers you want from the middle?
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2018 14:40:46 GMT -6
Exactly. We aren't asking for a 7 footer, we just need a bad ass in the middle. Moses is 6'9. But he is not a bad ass. Great kid, but not a bad ass. Bill Gillis was a bad man in there. He was 6'7. Paris Mccurdy, 6'7 (well, more like 6'5, but whatever). Curtis Kidd, 6'8. Hell, Dave Broz and Ryan Reed were wildmen in there but not skilled. But they'd foul the hell out of you. We lack an "enforcer" mentality. And yes, Teague ought to always be flashing to the rim with his skill set. How many tip dunks would he have by now? He could clean up a lot of garbage if his style of play was to be constantly going to the rim instead of hanging around outside. cardfan what are bad ass numbers you want from the middle? Not numbers. Presence. Strength. Attitude. Most of the guys I listed didn’t have gaudy numbers. They were just tough as hell and opponents knew it.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2018 14:53:46 GMT -6
Exactly. We aren't asking for a 7 footer, we just need a bad ass in the middle. Moses is 6'9. But he is not a bad ass. Great kid, but not a bad ass. Bill Gillis was a bad man in there. He was 6'7. Paris Mccurdy, 6'7 (well, more like 6'5, but whatever). Curtis Kidd, 6'8. Hell, Dave Broz and Ryan Reed were wildmen in there but not skilled. But they'd foul the hell out of you. We lack an "enforcer" mentality. And yes, Teague ought to always be flashing to the rim with his skill set. How many tip dunks would he have by now? He could clean up a lot of garbage if his style of play was to be constantly going to the rim instead of hanging around outside. While more bad ass would appeal to everyone, I do want better numbers. I'll sacrifice bad ass for numbers... I may disagree with some who don't see it possible, but think Trey and Teague are going to have some games where they do better than they have in the bad ass department. Much of it does have to do with things that won't change a lot, like strength and basic attitudes, but changing a little can produce substantial change, and when it is mental it can be changed. The biggest trouble right now is we are not shooting as well as we can, and seem to have been kicked back a little losing Walker. Let's get everyone back 100% and regain focus. Both I expect to happen. But in a tough stretch in the schedule it's a shame we are not operating on all cylinders.
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Post by gocards17 on Jan 16, 2018 15:01:30 GMT -6
Exactly. We aren't asking for a 7 footer, we just need a bad ass in the middle. Moses is 6'9. But he is not a bad ass. Great kid, but not a bad ass. Bill Gillis was a bad man in there. He was 6'7. Paris Mccurdy, 6'7 (well, more like 6'5, but whatever). Curtis Kidd, 6'8. Hell, Dave Broz and Ryan Reed were wildmen in there but not skilled. But they'd foul the hell out of you. We lack an "enforcer" mentality. And yes, Teague ought to always be flashing to the rim with his skill set. How many tip dunks would he have by now? He could clean up a lot of garbage if his style of play was to be constantly going to the rim instead of hanging around outside. While more bad ass would appeal to everyone, I do want better numbers. I'll sacrifice bad ass for numbers... I may disagree with some who don't see it possible, but think Trey and Teague are going to have some games where they do better than they have in the bad ass department. Much of it does have to do with things that won't change a lot, like strength and basic attitudes, but changing a little can produce substantial change, and when it is mental it can be changed. The biggest trouble right now is we are not shooting as well as we can, and seem to have been kicked back a little losing Walker. Let's get everyone back 100% and regain focus. Both I expect to happen. But in a tough stretch in the schedule it's a shame we are not operating on all cylinders. Post play has to be looked at. On some possessions the ball does not go no lower than the free throw line. How can you attract a "bad ass" when 3's seem to be the focus??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:15:43 GMT -6
Exactly. We aren't asking for a 7 footer, we just need a bad ass in the middle. Moses is 6'9. But he is not a bad ass. Great kid, but not a bad ass. Bill Gillis was a bad man in there. He was 6'7. Paris Mccurdy, 6'7 (well, more like 6'5, but whatever). Curtis Kidd, 6'8. Hell, Dave Broz and Ryan Reed were wildmen in there but not skilled. But they'd foul the hell out of you. We lack an "enforcer" mentality. And yes, Teague ought to always be flashing to the rim with his skill set. How many tip dunks would he have by now? He could clean up a lot of garbage if his style of play was to be constantly going to the rim instead of hanging around outside. While more bad ass would appeal to everyone, I do want better numbers. I'll sacrifice bad ass for numbers... I may disagree with some who don't see it possible, but think Trey and Teague are going to have some games where they do better than they have in the bad ass department. Much of it does have to do with things that won't change a lot, like strength and basic attitudes, but changing a little can produce substantial change, and when it is mental it can be changed. The biggest trouble right now is we are not shooting as well as we can, and seem to have been kicked back a little losing Walker. Let's get everyone back 100% and regain focus. Both I expect to happen. But in a tough stretch in the schedule it's a shame we are not operating on all cylinders. Okay but the problem at present, and for the foreseeable future, is we don't have numbers or badass.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2018 15:29:17 GMT -6
Bill Gillis' best season was 11 pts, 7 rebounds. That's it. But, he was a MAN inside at both ends of the floor. He didn't pass off shots inside 5 feet like we do right now. He took them. He guarded. He made big plays, got big rebounds. Paris Mccurdy, an engine to our sweet 16 run- 12 pts 8 rebounds. Not off the charts numbers, but big plays in big games. Defended. Took no ish. These guys weren't big 6'10 kids. Just really solid, strong, resolute 6'7 kids. Give me a Nate Perkins.
With a balanced team we don't need big numbers from the post. Trey can give maybe better numbers than those guys. He can make nice passes. But what he can't give is strength, resoluteness, big plays in big moments, hard nosed defense, toughness in the lane. He just can't. It's not his make up. Same for Teague.
Sure, if we shoot better that perhaps doesn't matter in most games. However, in those tough games against a Buffalo, or maybe even WMU type team (don't know about Kent yet), when we need that ooomph, that big bucket inside, that big stop inside, the key rebound to win the MAC tourney, do we have anyone who's going to get that for us? That's my question. Instead we're geared toward having to hit shots 23 feet from the basket. We don't score well inside the paint. We aren't strong enough against the stronger/more athletic teams. That's where a bad ass comes into play. And it doesn't even really have to be a center. A true power forward will do the job. I'm not sure Whit even looks at those kinds of body types. He doesn't like the thicker guys so much. Having long players is good. But having no players with real bulk and strength is not good. (nor is having players who are long, but not athletic or particularly quick)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:34:45 GMT -6
Trey can give maybe better numbers than those guys. Not this year he can't. Currently he is 8.4 and 7.8 and he doesn't intimidate anyone.
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Post by gocards17 on Jan 16, 2018 15:37:57 GMT -6
Trey can give maybe better numbers than those guys. Not this year he can't. Currently he is 8.4 and 7.8 and he doesn't intimidate anyone. Trey was hurt the first few games of the season. Currrently he’s averaging a double/double in conference play.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2018 15:39:04 GMT -6
Trey can give maybe better numbers than those guys. Not this year he can't. Currently he is 8.4 and 7.8 and he doesn't intimidate anyone. That's why I said maybe. He's shown the abilty to get double doubles, but he's not consistent enough. That's why I say I'm not looking for numbers, I'm looking for presence. Too many games of not enough production. Too many games of only coming to play in the second half. But yes, the problem remains that he doesn't intimdate anyone. What happened to his shot blocking?? I love the kid and I'm glad we have him but unless he goes beast mode all of a sudden he doesn't scare/worry opponents. Heck, I'd take an alpha shooting guard. A kid who's gonna get 20 just about every night and can score in multiple ways and not just when the 3's are falling. ANYONE we can go to when the game is on the line and you know, he's the guy. Persons has done it for a few games, but not regularly. Too many sub double figures games. Or 13 points and 3 assists games. He plays his ass off but is struggling for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:49:48 GMT -6
Not this year he can't. Currently he is 8.4 and 7.8 and he doesn't intimidate anyone. Trey was hurt the first few games of the season. Currrently he’s averaging a double/double in conference play. Okay and last season he averaged 9 and 8.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:51:39 GMT -6
Not this year he can't. Currently he is 8.4 and 7.8 and he doesn't intimidate anyone. That's why I said maybe. He's shown the abilty to get double doubles, but he's not consistent enough. That's why I say I'm not looking for numbers, I'm looking for presence. Too many games of not enough production. Too many games of only coming to play in the second half. But yes, the problem remains that he doesn't intimdate anyone. What happened to his shot blocking?? I love the kid and I'm glad we have him but unless he goes beast mode all of a sudden he doesn't scare/worry opponents. Heck, I'd take an alpha shooting guard. A kid who's gonna get 20 just about every night and can score in multiple ways and not just when the 3's are falling. ANYONE we can go to when the game is on the line and you know, he's the guy. Persons has done it for a few games, but not regularly. Too many sub double figures games. Or 13 points and 3 assists games. He plays his ass off but is struggling for sure. Agreed.............I love to see an alpha two in the Reggie Miller or Parrish Casebier type mode. I am not looking for Reggie's numbers but the toughness and willingness to fight for a win is something we don't have.
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Post by ruffledfeathers on Jan 16, 2018 16:04:26 GMT -6
I want a player, any position, who just wills his team to win. Whatever it takes to get the W.
Go Cards!
RF
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Post by reevo on Jan 16, 2018 16:12:08 GMT -6
What you all need to realize is that our 2 inside guys do not force defenses to collapse or do you hardly ever see our guys get doubled teams. Opposing teams do not respect our interior play which is part of the reason for our poor perimeter shooting. A big physical low post player will demand help which will help out your perimeter game. Numbers are over rated. Moses will end up averaging close to 8 rebounds a game but he is not a great physical rebounder. He gets numbers because he is our loan big guy, we take lots of shots and play at a decent pace. The great rebounders of our past played at a much slower pace where the number of shots were limited. Steve Payne was a great rebounder on both sides of the floor and demanded a double team. Moses and Teague do not.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 16, 2018 16:13:52 GMT -6
This has been an entertaining board to read! I definitely feel like recruiting a strong post player would help, but height shouldn't be the major determining factor. I think Perkins from Buffalo is 6'7" or 6'8"? He ate Trey and Tahjai for lunch. Someone of his size but more importantly his gameplay mindset is what we could use. All of our players for the most part are finesse players. We a need a bull in the china shop type of guy. Someone who's mindset is "hit you in the mouth" until you stop me. Our post play is more like "hide or go around you so you don't hit me". I also think Tahjai should stop hanging out at the perimeter and slash to the basket more, even if he doesn't have the ball. He should be offensive rebounding more than what he his. His ability to tip balls back in is very good so just getting him close to the offensive rebounds has a way better chance of helping us then shooting 2-25 or whatever he is from the perimeter. I like the way you think
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Post by lmills72 on Jan 16, 2018 17:58:25 GMT -6
What you all need to realize is that our 2 inside guys do not force defenses to collapse or do you hardly ever see our guys get doubled teams. Opposing teams do not respect our interior play which is part of the reason for our poor perimeter shooting. A big physical low post player will demand help which will help out your perimeter game. Numbers are over rated. Moses will end up averaging close to 8 rebounds a game but he is not a great physical rebounder. He gets numbers because he is our loan big guy, we take lots of shots and play at a decent pace. The great rebounders of our past played at a much slower pace where the number of shots were limited. Steve Payne was a great rebounder on both sides of the floor and demanded a double team. Moses and Teague do not. I'm onboard with this. I don't think the strong guy, the attitude guy inside needs big numbers because he's going to make everybody else's numbers better. His averages might not be any better than Trey's but because of his style of play, guys like Mallers, Sellers, Persons and Teague would benefit.
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