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Purdue
Nov 11, 2018 15:36:40 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2018 15:36:40 GMT -6
The whole problem is that he would be useful in that situation much later in the year. NOT in the second game where neither he or the team is ready to switch gears on offense.
...Bottom line is we don't need more minutes from Huggins now, we need more minutes from Trey. Trey played 23 minutes and had 2 rebounds. 2. That is awful for a guy who sure was moving pretty dog gone well. He absolutely hates contact and it is pretty obvious when you watch it live. I agree completely there, although I don't think he would have played that many minutes had Teague not been in foul trouble. It was IMO him as a choice over Huggins. Maybe I should say more full speed minutes from Trey? But my take is that he is still not 100% and that impacts both physical ability and mental attitude. Don't like the latter any more than you do, but it is what it is.
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Purdue
Nov 11, 2018 15:50:46 GMT -6
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 11, 2018 15:50:46 GMT -6
Im not saying throw him out there for extended minutes. Im saying we desperately needed help yesterday we were foul trouble and he could have bought us a few minutes. I do not expect him to really do anything. Also he has been practicing for a year its not like he just arrived on campus. As I remember, we only had to out recruit maybe one very low end d1 program and a handful of d2 programs to get him. In other words, it seems coaching staffs around the country were right about him.
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Purdue
Nov 11, 2018 15:54:58 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2018 15:54:58 GMT -6
Only if you think rather early significant contribution is the norm.
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Purdue
Nov 11, 2018 20:49:56 GMT -6
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 11, 2018 20:49:56 GMT -6
If a player is not able to fill a rather dire need for their type of player by their second year in the program, that's a bad sign
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Post by lmills72 on Nov 11, 2018 21:27:12 GMT -6
Well, a lot of us see it as a "dire need." I'm not sure the coach sees it that way.
Thus you have to question whether the player's lack of playing time results from his lack of ability/skill or the coach's desire to play a different way. I suspect both of these issues might be in play here.
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Purdue
Nov 12, 2018 6:31:47 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2018 6:31:47 GMT -6
Well, a lot of us see it as a "dire need." I'm not sure the coach sees it that way. Thus you have to question whether the player's lack of playing time results from his lack of ability/skill or the coach's desire to play a different way. I suspect both of these issues might be in play here. That may be true. This early, this year a lot of it is priority. Spending time and effort to get the most out of a player right now who is going to be a reserve with not that big a role when Trey is back might not be as important as seeing how other combos of players work, too. They're just on a different time line than fans are to see more of him. Sherm makes an assumption I don't buy about how soon this guy pays off. And that he's no good at all unless he produces early. Both overwrought and incorrect.
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Post by cardfan on Nov 12, 2018 6:44:03 GMT -6
Wouldn’t you want to find out about the kid now rather than February?
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Purdue
Nov 12, 2018 8:47:37 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2018 8:47:37 GMT -6
Wouldn’t you want to find out about the kid now rather than February? No.
Three points.
1. That assumes he is the same now as he would be late in the season, with his debut against somewhat less challenging circumstances than Mackey against a good 7 foot plus player. The key here is to develop the player. NOT to "test" him as if we can put him in a reject pile and rack up the next big guy on the bench until we find one we like better. Huggins we all agree is a player we want to improve, not a player we should treat is at a point we should be planning out to utilize his current skill level.
2. If the coaches say he is not quite ready for prime time, do they really need the few more minutes to confirm that opinion. Are they gaining any new knowledge at all, now? Just don't need to use the few more minutes against a good team to assess his current level.
3. We need to find out now how the better players we have now can be used together. Testing different lineups against better competition does give us new knowledge and knowledge that is actually useful. Since we face 3 good teams in the early schedule. These are the players who are each going to play more minutes than Huggins is likely to get at any point. Priorities.
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Purdue
Nov 12, 2018 8:48:44 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2018 8:48:44 GMT -6
Quick additional comment. Add to the three points above mills idea about how Whitford wants this team to play with its personnel what it is.
If Whitford had a dynamite inside player, I guarantee he'd be using him and planning how to maximize that ability. Without that, why develop ways to maximize use of less talented player (offense or defense) when you have good forwards and need to use our guards. Not a post a player who is not yet a talented offensive player, even if a slight upgrade on defense due to his size. Or a Lonnie Jones phenom inside on D. Then you'd see him finding ways to maximize that talent.
We may well see that scenario next year or in Huggins junior eligible year. (or maybe that will be a Hendricks-Huggins tag team by then.) In the meantime you suit up and play with the players you have to maximize the talent you have.
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Post by williamtsherman on Nov 12, 2018 8:59:37 GMT -6
This is clearly Persons' team, and it will go as far as he carries it. We were very fortunate in being close to Kokomo, and that Purdue ran out of scholarships at the time.
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Post by cardfan on Nov 12, 2018 9:05:53 GMT -6
Why even bother recruiting the kid then. Basically you’re trying to tell me the kid is either no good and not remotely ready to help in any way shape or form, (yep) or he doesn’t fit Whitford’s system. (Yep)
Otherwise yes, you do get that kid some minutes now, with Trey limited and every other interior player we have not really being an interior player. You play guys in the non conference season to find out about them. And get the team ready for the MAC season. I’m not talking 20 minutes a game, I’m talking 5. We can’t suddenly throw him in against WMU if we have foul trouble or injuries, he’d get destroyed. He’s in the second year in this program. If you can’t get him 5 minutes a game on a team that desperately needs some size and a back up to Trey developed then what are we doing? We lose to teams with interior strength.
And are you really trying to sell people on some future pairing of Huggins and Hendricks, like 3 years from now? I sure hope we’ve recruited over at least one of them by then.
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Purdue
Nov 12, 2018 9:10:27 GMT -6
Post by JacksonStreetElite on Nov 12, 2018 9:10:27 GMT -6
Trey missed a wide open lay up (air balled it)because he saw the pressure coming and you could see him flinching when a body came at him as the play happened right in front of me. In fact, my 16 year old looked at me and said “DAD” oh my gosh that was a pussy play.
It wasn't the first time he's done that either. Happened last year regularly.
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Post by cardfan on Nov 12, 2018 9:14:39 GMT -6
Trey missed a wide open lay up (air balled it)because he saw the pressure coming and you could see him flinching when a body came at him as the play happened right in front of me. In fact, my 16 year old looked at me and said “DAD” oh my gosh that was a pussy play.
It wasn't the first time he's done that either. Happened last year regularly.
Sadly that’s the norm. Every now and then you get a beast game from trey but for the most part he shies away from it. He puts up decent numbers when he’s going well but disappears when you need him most.
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Post by Hoopsmith on Nov 12, 2018 9:26:28 GMT -6
Trey missed a wide open lay up (air balled it)because he saw the pressure coming and you could see him flinching when a body came at him as the play happened right in front of me. In fact, my 16 year old looked at me and said “DAD” oh my gosh that was a pussy play.
It wasn't the first time he's done that either. Happened last year regularly.
Saw that too. In fact, it was a possession or two before he put one off the side of the backboard. Trey is a finesse center who is vulnerable to more physical post players. We all know he struggles with depression-related issues. I think he clearly presses when he gets into a funk/intimidated, and that is the result.
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Purdue
Nov 12, 2018 9:40:02 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2018 9:40:02 GMT -6
It wasn't the first time he's done that either. Happened last year regularly.
Sadly that’s the norm. Every now and then you get a beast game from trey but for the most part he shies away from it. He puts up decent numbers when he’s going well but disappears when you need him most. Yeah, the psychological and the physical seem linked. And it did surface worse when we had a very good opponent who challenged us most down low.
He played like a different guy a year ago in the summer (healthy and before the Hollywood tragedy ) and he also had a stretch late in the season when they had lost the two senior guards and went big. But as they were worn down after that stretch (mental and physical) and as other teams figured out they could collapse inside without concern, that also sapped confidence, he never got that high energy back. To be fair neither did Teague. It's not all just individual, the team had to have been on the mentally fragile side. Things crashed and everyone suffered impact. Seniors and Walker really let us down.
That swoon at the end coulda, woulda, shoulda been so different if we had had any additional guard play to add perimeter play. If we'd had any of the AWOL senior guards and didn't have to play Sellers at G that inside play with Taj and Trey would have been really powerful in the tourney. Not just depth but much more outside threat to keep the defense from collapsing. I know that had been something the coaches were going to have ready for the MAC much BEFORE we lost the problem children , and had thought about it from early in the year.
What a screwed up end to the season. Very Ball State...
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