|
Post by lmills72 on Dec 7, 2015 10:49:21 GMT -6
OK folks we are now 7-2, matched last year's total wins, the students are on campus, the team shows promise-so when does the attendance get north of 2500? Well, technically I think we hit it vs. New Orleans, but I understand what you're saying. I don't see it against Pepperdine on the weekend before finals, but maybe I'm wrong. If it doesn't happen then it ain't going to happen over break against Alabama A&M and Chicago State, even if they do keep on winning. And will the students even be back on campus for the MAC opener against Toledo. If they aren't, I'm not optimistic about it happening then. The Cards have seven games from now until the Saturday, Jan. 16 game against Miami. I think they have to win least 4 of those games, including 2 of the first 3 MAC games (making them 11-5 overall and 2-1 in the MAC) to pull a decent crowd against Miami.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 7, 2015 12:38:37 GMT -6
I'm an optimist and yet I don't necessarily see us winning 4 of the next 7. 4 are at home, but in the seven games Ohio and ISU are two of our toughest remaining games, Western on the road is hard. Pepperdine is a toss up game. Toledo no pushover at home even. We'll likely win 3 of 7 to be 10-6. Winning 4 of 7 would be a good result. More very good. But 4 is not going to be thrilling to the apathetic fans.
Doubt that 3 versus 4 wins makes much different to the students or locals in the Miami game attendance picture. We'll bring a bigger student crowd out if there is a "big" conference game later with something on the line, and locals will come if we get some momentum going, but neither group will respond so much differently early unless we are on fantastic run, like 6 of 7.
A bad record kills attendance pretty fast. It takes a really good record to build attendance and you have to sustain it over a season or two. Best we have done in a decade has been to bring in a decent number of fans for a big in state school.
So every win this year is more likely to help with ticket sales next year, maybe show some results then, I doubt we overcome the apathy this year. But we did get the General to a game, although it may be he just likes bearded players and scantily clad coeds, I can't tell for sure. But I think we are making progress even with some resident skeptics.
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Dec 7, 2015 14:12:27 GMT -6
Do you guys have any factual history that shows how quickly wins result in increased attendance? Or are you just guessing?
Personally, I have no idea what is typical when a program starts increasing it's winning percentage, but I suspect the rise in attendance might be slower than you guys are thinking. It would be a good subject for a regression analysis, with independent variables: season winning %, last 5 games winning %, last season winning %, strength of opponent, school break or no, day of week, outdoor temperature/weather. People talk a lot about this or that affecting attendance, but I wonder if, as often happens, they are just repeating something they heard from someone else who actually has no grasp of the facts.
Another thing you might keep in mind is that this magic 15-win figure is not really all that magic. Billy Taylor had 15 wins in each of his final two seasons, and I don't remember the Fire Marshal having any concerns about the crowd size in the Arena in those days.
Question for Mills - will the attendance for a 2 hour on-campus event really be affected by the fact it's the weekend before finals? Are students really that anxious to avoid any interruption in their studying? Maybe, but if so, things have changed mighty drastically since I was in school. Usually, we didn't even know it was the weekend before finals.
|
|
|
Post by Bigfoot on Dec 7, 2015 15:11:45 GMT -6
Do you guys have any factual history that shows how quickly wins result in increased attendance? Or are you just guessing? Personally, I have no idea what is typical when a program starts increasing it's winning percentage, but I suspect the rise in attendance might be slower than you guys are thinking. It would be a good subject for a regression analysis, with independent variables: season winning %, last 5 games winning %, last season winning %, strength of opponent, school break or no, day of week, outdoor temperature/weather. People talk a lot about this or that affecting attendance, but I wonder if, as often happens, they are just repeating something they heard from someone else who actually has no grasp of the facts. Another thing you might keep in mind is that this magic 15-win figure is not really all that magic. Billy Taylor had 15 wins in each of his final two seasons, and I don't remember the Fire Marshal having any concerns about the crowd size in the Arena in those days. Question for Mills - will the attendance for a 2 hour on-campus event really be affected by the fact it's the weekend before finals? Are students really that anxious to avoid any interruption in their studying? Maybe, but if so, things have changed mighty drastically since I was in school. Usually, we didn't even know it was the weekend before finals. Some good points and I would also suspect the surrounding population base and affluence of the area is a factor. I moved to the western shore of Kentucky lake four years ago just SW of Murray, Kentucky and home of Murray State and Racer basketball. I lived most of my life along the southern shore of Lake Michigan in Chesterton prior to building my eventual retirement home here. I have been to a dozen or so games over this time frame and am totally impressed at what I see. A beautiful facility of 10,000 plus in a community of 16,000 and a county of 40,000 souls (very rural area) Nearest town of any size is Paducah, Ky area which has maybe 35,000 residents 45 miles away. Went to the MSU vs Evansiville game the other night and watched two really talented teams that played great team ball and played really hard. MSU has had 28 seasons in a row with a winning record which must explain the passion these folks have for this program. Having been very close with Coach Majerus and Hunsaker during our glory days, I can honestly say that what I witness here at Murray State is akin to those days! People around here love/support the Racers and I witness only modest recognition for the University of Kentucky, Louisville and Western Kentucky Univeristy (100 miles due eat of Murray in Bowling Green) in these parts. I also have a new found respect for the Ohio Valley Conference and for MSU's arch rival Belmont U. in Nashville among others. Sure wish we could once again find that kind of support and enthusiasm for the Cardinals but recognize the answer is probably found in the fact this program wins at a high percentage for many years! People love to support a winner I guess!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 15:52:36 GMT -6
Question for Mills - will the attendance for a 2 hour on-campus event really be affected by the fact it's the weekend before finals? Are students really that anxious to avoid any interruption in their studying? Maybe, but if so, things have changed mighty drastically since I was in school. Usually, we didn't even know it was the weekend before finals. Ditto on the finals week. I actually missed a final one year because I didn't know it was finals week. A for the quarter, F for the final.......she gave me a C.
|
|
|
Post by lmills72 on Dec 7, 2015 18:10:51 GMT -6
No, I have no analysis that backs up any of my speculation. Everything just a "feeling" from my point of view.
For instance, being that basketball hasn't been in the minds of most students for years, my pure speculation is that any little distraction is enough to keep them from going to the game.
So, regarding the weekend before finals, it doesn't have to mean they're studying for finals. It could just mean they've got one last chance before break to get drunk with their buds and giving up 2 hours drinking to spend in Worthen isn't yet worth it to them.
It could mean they don't want to interrupt their weekend Halo marathon for basketball, especially since they have yet to utilize the new scoreboards for online gaming.
It could just mean they're focused on getting the heck out of Dodge.
Reality is my speculation is based on how I feel about going to games and while I'm encouraged by the performance thus far, it's still not must-see for me. If it ain't must-see for me, I figure it ain't must-see for most of the Muncie and campus community.
Now if they win 4 of 7, including two MAC games, before the Miami game, it'll be inching closer to must-see for me. And, since the world revolves around me, I figure it will be for others also.
BTW, by "decent" I'm just talking about 3,500 in attendance, 4,000 tops. I'm not talking about anything the fire marshal will need to be called for.
Seeing as we pulled about 3,400 for the Kent game that was the fourth game of our losing streak last year, I don't think that it's out of line to think that an 11-win team with a 2-1 MAC record might draw 3,500-4,000.
|
|
|
Post by DickHunsaker on Dec 7, 2015 19:11:27 GMT -6
No, I have no analysis that backs up any of my speculation. Everything just a "feeling" from my point of view. For instance, being that basketball hasn't been in the minds of most students for years, my pure speculation is that any little distraction is enough to keep them from going to the game. So, regarding the weekend before finals, it doesn't have to mean they're studying for finals. It could just mean they've got one last chance before break to get drunk with their buds and giving up 2 hours drinking to spend in Worthen isn't yet worth it to them. It could mean they don't want to interrupt their weekend Halo marathon for basketball, especially since they have yet to utilize the new scoreboards for online gaming. It could just mean they're focused on getting the heck out of Dodge. Reality is my speculation is based on how I feel about going to games and while I'm encouraged by the performance thus far, it's still not must-see for me. If it ain't must-see for me, I figure it ain't must-see for most of the Muncie and campus community. Now if they win 4 of 7, including two MAC games, before the Miami game, it'll be inching closer to must-see for me. And, since the world revolves around me, I figure it will be for others also. BTW, by "decent" I'm just talking about 3,500 in attendance, 4,000 tops. I'm not talking about anything the fire marshal will need to be called for. Seeing as we pulled about 3,400 for the Kent game that was the fourth game of our losing streak last year, I don't think that it's out of line to think that an 11-win team with a 2-1 MAC record might draw 3,500-4,000. 4,000 would be a great goal
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Dec 7, 2015 19:24:06 GMT -6
Alright. Now that, I can understand.
As a student, I had a pretty vague grasp of the academic calendar. But I was strong on days of the week. Because...you know....Thur/Fri/Sat nights were party nights and Sunday you couldn't buy beer. I was right on top of that situation, and there were only a few times where I had to drive to Ohio.
|
|
|
Post by proctorp on Dec 7, 2015 21:54:01 GMT -6
I am still amazed at posters who think the locals will show up and will boost attendance. Muncie is shrinking more than a hemroid with Preperation H and has been for some time. When I go to a game(had season tickets given to me this year) I see mostly locals as it is in the stands. Its students and alumni that we should be talking about.
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 7, 2015 22:34:32 GMT -6
Im guilty I have not had season tickets for three or four years now. Having small kids and not being very good has kept me from attending like I did in the past. The real killer though is ESPN 3/watch espn. Now that anyone can basically watch every game, no one is going to show up until the program really has a buzz about it.
|
|
|
Post by thebsukid on Dec 8, 2015 0:17:30 GMT -6
We need an NCAA tournament appearance or two to begin to drive reasonable crowds back!!
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Dec 8, 2015 6:07:54 GMT -6
I'm with Kid on this. A tourney appearance would be the real inflection point for program interest and attendance. That's why I go on and on about the sort of balanced roster necessary to win the MAC, and have no patience for wishful thinking, excuses and general goo goo talk about anything less than that balanced roster.
By the way, are we in good with any quality big men for the spring signing period?
|
|
|
Post by universityjim on Dec 8, 2015 7:33:17 GMT -6
I will agree on the adult/local crowd. Ball State basketball is totally out of most peoples mind at this point and they don't know games are going on. Most of the Indy TV stations don't report our scores any more, and the newspaper coverage is spotty. There will need to be something major happen to get people interested again. The student attendance this year however has been so weak that just about any increase in the student crowd is going to make a nice increase in the total number. The worst football student crowd was still probably twice as large as the biggest basketball student crowd this year, which is really sad. The way most of them that do attend just sit there and don't get excited or even stand for the fight song makes me think they are there because some professor is giving them extra credit to attend. If we’d get as many as are in this photo, which is just one section of the student football crowd at the VMI game, we’d double the attendance at Worthen.
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Dec 8, 2015 7:51:34 GMT -6
I dunno. That picture was not typical for student attendance. The student half also empties during the game.
You should check what student attendance was at a couple of games before setting the lowest attendance at a football game as a standard. You are however quite correct that the student attendance at basketball is extremely poor.
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 8, 2015 7:59:34 GMT -6
Same rules apply though that was VMI which I think I was the first game, Had we kept winning the crowds would have remained consistent(maybe not as big but close)In 2008 when we were winning the crowds grew after each win culminating with the near sellout against WMU. Our fans are fickle and define bandwagon if we are winning and it becomes an event they will show if we are losing or even mediocre and its just another game no chance. The other solution is free beer that would work
|
|