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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 11, 2018 13:25:36 GMT -6
"Too harsh to say we haven't seen any coaching. This year a very hard year with so many personnel changes. Literally day 1 to now. "
No doubt. Whoever it was that saddled Whitford with this group of players really screwed him over.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 13:57:13 GMT -6
"Too harsh to say we haven't seen any coaching. This year a very hard year with so many personnel changes. Literally day 1 to now. "
No doubt. Whoever it was that saddled Whitford with this group of players really screwed him over.
Do you really blame Whitford for recruiting a player who commits suicide? For whether he could have acted to predict and prevent both these discipline problems earlier than this year, or during this year? And assume you conclude he took risks on discipline was that "bad coaching." Assume you do on all of that. That doesn't mean we have not seen some good coaching in response to the problems created.
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Post by bsutrack on Feb 11, 2018 14:11:59 GMT -6
"Too harsh to say we haven't seen any coaching. This year a very hard year with so many personnel changes. Literally day 1 to now. "
No doubt. Whoever it was that saddled Whitford with this group of players really screwed him over.
It's a cute one-liner zinger, but I don't know if it's totally accurate. His main short coming right now is in the back court where there seemed to be plenty of depth at the beginning of the season. I don't remember reading about any "red-flags" on Walker before he came to BSU. Maybe you kick-off Tyler at the end of the season and recruit over him, but on the other hand, he still had lots of potential to put-out a good senior season. There was one benefit, as I see it, in being forced to move Sellers out to SG. It forced Teague and Moses into playing more minutes together. I suppose you could say a good coach should have figured that out anyway, but I'm not sure Whitford would have. I think if Whitford had kept Sellers at the 3, Mallers would have still gotten considerable minutes at the 4 and not allowed the pairing of Moses and Teague which has been our best. Of course if Hollywood hadn't committed suicide, there would have been more front court depth. I guess if you like one-liner zingers, you could say, never recruit someone who might commit suicide on you. (I apologize for typing that in respect to the Hollywood family).
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Post by reevo on Feb 11, 2018 14:36:34 GMT -6
"Too harsh to say we haven't seen any coaching. This year a very hard year with so many personnel changes. Literally day 1 to now. "
No doubt. Whoever it was that saddled Whitford with this group of players really screwed him over.
Do you really blame Whitford for recruiting a player who commits suicide? For whether he could have acted to predict and prevent both these discipline problems earlier than this year, or during this year? And assume you conclude he took risks on discipline was that "bad coaching." Assume you do on all of that. That doesn't mean we have not seen some good coaching in response to the problems created. If anything, Zach’s death brought this team closer and hopefully more resilient. Zach’s death was and is awful but to use his death as a way of excusing our inconsistent play is wrong. I think the kids would be the first to tell you his death is motivation to be better. As for Tyler, Whitford made that bed by giving this kid ample chances and opportunities. I am one will not blame Whitford for the idiotic behavior of the 2 guards but will blame him for the lack of depth we have inside. Bottom line, unless something changes come tournament time, we are looking at another meh season. My question is when are you all going to get tired of being meh?
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 11, 2018 15:10:51 GMT -6
Some coaches have results and some have excuses.
Unfortunately we keep getting the one kind of coach and never the other. Who's excuses have been the best out of our recent coaches? I'd rank them like this:
1) Taylor's excuses 2) Whitford's excuses 3) Thompson's excuses 4) Buckley's excuses
Others may disagree. It's a tough competition. This is one area where our recent coaches have all really excelled. Note that the coaches have not always had to make the excuses themselves....those wonderful "supportive" fans often help them out there.
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Post by thebsukid on Feb 11, 2018 15:29:28 GMT -6
I agree largely with Revvo and Oohmh posts.
And, General I love u man but your post truly takes over where many of Halftime’s posts ended.
With a pretty difficult schedule, and considerable adversity Whit has already won 16 on his way to 20 or more for the third straight season!
I still believe we walk into Cleveland as a top 4 seeded team and make it to the Championship game.. only time will tell
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 15:37:40 GMT -6
Some coaches have results and some have excuses.
Unfortunately we keep getting the one kind of coach and never the other. Who's excuses have been the best out of our recent coaches? I'd rank them like this:
1) Taylor's excuses 2) Whitford's excuses 3) Thompson's excuses 4) Buckley's excuses
Others may disagree. It's a tough competition. This is one area where our recent coaches have all really excelled. Note that the coaches have not always had to make the excuses themselves....those wonderful "supportive" fans often help them out there. Buckley had some excuses, but it had been clear to most that he was not going to get it back. I don't really remember much in the way of excuses offered for him, although on the extension I recall disagreement. Perhaps that's what you are referring to. I saw nobody here making excuses for Thompson. His failures were well assigned blame. Taylor should get due credit for doing the main thing he was hired to do which was NOT be Thompson, but I believe most here saw him as more a necessary evil, and any excuses for him were along those lines, but I try to forget those guys mostly. As for Whitford. The debate in this thread started with what I think is a harsh judgment that he did NO coaching of merit this year. I think he had to make a lot of changes due to personnel changes, and his coaching contributed to holding this team together as well as making adjustment to playing without players he had expected to have. We'll continue to debate Whit's overall results. There is room for disagreement there of course. But that is not what my comments were about, just giving him credit for some good coaching THIS year.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 15:46:45 GMT -6
Do you really blame Whitford for recruiting a player who commits suicide? For whether he could have acted to predict and prevent both these discipline problems earlier than this year, or during this year? And assume you conclude he took risks on discipline was that "bad coaching." Assume you do on all of that. That doesn't mean we have not seen some good coaching in response to the problems created. If anything, Zach’s death brought this team closer and hopefully more resilient. Zach’s death was and is awful but to use his death as a way of excusing our inconsistent play is wrong. I think the kids would be the first to tell you his death is motivation to be better. As for Tyler, Whitford made that bed by giving this kid ample chances and opportunities. I am one will not blame Whitford for the idiotic behavior of the 2 guards but will blame him for the lack of depth we have inside. Bottom line, unless something changes come tournament time, we are looking at another meh season. My question is when are you all going to get tired of being meh? I can agree with all of that and still say he has done some good coaching this year in adverse circumstances. While Zach's death might have brought the team some focus, even in that you have to credit the coach for contribution to that result. (A death close to the Taylor team is said to have destroyed that team in a year where we expected much more. Maybe more than we expected for this team. ) And it certainly doesn't take away from credit due Whitford this year in making coaching adjustments due to personnel changing WAY more than anybody would have expected. Blame Whit for the lack of depth inside, it doesn't take away from some good results despite that lack of depth, blame him for lack of enough talent inside, it doesn't explain the effective use of that talent we have seen in some of these recent games. That has to be good decision on how to use talent and to some extent good development and motivation during that stretch. it's a long way from NO good coaching this year, which claim led to my objections above.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 15:54:41 GMT -6
I agree largely with Revvo and Oohmh posts. And, General I love u man but your post truly takes over where many of Halftime’s posts ended. With a pretty difficult schedule, and considerable adversity Whit has already won 16 on his way to 20 or more for the third straight season! I still believe we walk into Cleveland as a top 4 seeded team and make it to the Championship game.. only time will tell Optimistic to get to the Final. VERY. OK. Possible, I'll go that far, but very unlikely, but I'd celebrate that result. So would Sherman. But let's just give Whitford a little credit. And should he be as successful as I expect next year, I'll argue with Sherman then. I'm sure he'll say it too little too late, no matter what it is, but he'll celebrate that result. As for halftime, leave him out of it, he could see the success and still find a way to say it is a total failure, watch our great teams from the past, and probably find fault with them. It's his DNA, a desire to find the dark lining in every silver cloud. Sherman is not in his class when it comes to negativity.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 18:34:34 GMT -6
''Part of his coaching'', a very small part. If preventing the team from falling apart and making the most out of what you have is not pretty important to you, I guess we'll just have to disagree. But, back to the point, coaching an extra week is what most coaches want, and could conceivably help. I'm not very high on the idea but am not so easily as you dismissing it.
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Feb 11, 2018 18:58:16 GMT -6
Maybe we win a couple games but again what difference does it make We have to prepare for that real tournament run that's always just a year away.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 11, 2018 19:43:10 GMT -6
Not sure where to put this so I am putting it here because this seems to be the most active thread. The past few games the fam and I have sat in front of an older gentleman and his wife. The last game or two we have been chatting basketball between plays. The guy knows basketball and from our conversations he either reads this board or he needs too.. If your reading this introduce yourself at the next game.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 11, 2018 19:49:39 GMT -6
Maybe we win a couple games but again what difference does it make We have to prepare for that real tournament run that's always just a year away. Not a lot of help, team will be a lot different next year, more athletes. Extra practice here is about current players, maybe a little bit momentum?
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Post by frozenbaugh on Feb 11, 2018 19:52:47 GMT -6
A little late to this party but I say they get to 20. What is Ball State at home, 12-1 and they have 3 home games left? Toledo will not be a gimme but if they win those 3, I think they'll beat NIU or Central on the road.
Akron is not great but it's at the Jar so my confidence is low.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 11, 2018 20:07:25 GMT -6
What I would really like to see is for 00 and kid to state their own rankings of coaches' excuses. They are the true experts after all. Which coach was the easiest to make excuses for? Which the most difficult? Feel free to leave out Thompson as a special case. The other three, though, are remarkably the same in their (lack of) results, and can be compared on an even footing
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